Chord Symbol playback
I was thinking that MuseScore could use some improvements related to chord symbols. One of these improvements is the playback of chord symbols. How do you guys feel about this? And if this were to be added, how should it be done? There could be notes generated on the score itself, or it could be done in the background just for playback. In both cases, how should the rhythms and voicings be? Any thoughts?
Comments
Better to wait than to urge
https://musescore.org/en/node/286179
https://musescore.org/en/node/286177
I made a Musescore 3.0 plugin that expands chord symbols into notes. It can handle most chords including complex jazz chords. Try it and let me know what you think. The plugin is here... https://musescore.org/en/project/expand-chord-symbols-notes
In reply to I made a Musescore 3.0… by markshepherd
Hello!
I want to congratulate you for the wonderful work and creation of this plugin.
Can he recognize and generate chords with five Ex notes. F7M (9) according to your example that I expanded? - Attached file...
Why do some chords have the bass doubling and others not?
Can I wish only the notes without folding the bass?
Friendly hug!!
In reply to Hello! I want to… by mjbartemusica1
Good morning, and thanks for your kind comments!
I don't know what you mean by "generate chords with five Ex notes". Can you explain?
The plugin does not understand chord symbols that contain "()". I hope to add that ability in the next few days. Try using chord symbols that don't have "()". Instead of "F7(9)", you can use "F9".
In the example file, the tonic note of each chord appears twice, once in the bass and then again one octave above. Is this what you mean by "bass doubling"?
I don't know what you mean by "folding the bass". Can you explain?
In reply to Good morning, and thanks for… by markshepherd
Good night (in Brazil)!
Ok friend I will explain:
"generate chords with five Ex notes". You can explain?
Example answer: in the (last measure) score attached ...
In the example file, the root note of each chord appears twice, once on the bass and again an octave higher. Is that what you mean by "bass doubling"?
Answer: Exactly just that I don't want the bass, as well as avoiding it when using the plugin?
Be happy friend!!
In reply to Good night (in Brazil)! Ok… by mjbartemusica1
Hi, thanks for your explanation and the example file. Now I understand!
The plugin gives you very little control over the exact notes it generates. There only 2 choices:
• "full chord" - all the notes in each chord
• "condensed chord" - contains only the 4 most important notes, plus a bass note, positioned near middle C
So, unfortunately, the plugin cannot generate the "five Ex note" chord you want. (Note: the next version of MuseScore (version 3.5) will have a feature called Realize Chord Symbols that gives you more control over the voicing of chords. Maybe this will meet your need.)
If you use the plugin's "rhythm pattern" feature, there is a way to include only the bass note, but there is no way to exclude it. I hope to soon have an improved version of the plugin that will give you this ability.
In reply to Hi, thanks for your… by markshepherd
FWIW, I interpreted the "Ex" as just being shorthand for "for example". So, the question was whether the algorithm could handle "chords with five (for example) notes". So if I understand correctly, your algorithm does handle it, either by playing the full chord (not really very musical) or condensing it to the some that resembles how a pianist or guitarist might actually play it.
Also, for the record, while 3.5 will have a "realize chord symbol" feature to explicitly convert chords into regular notes on the staff, it's not expected people would use that. Instead, most people will simply enable chord symbol playback once and the chords playback automatically from then on without needing to explicitly "realize" them. The "realize" command is more for cases where you might want to edit the voicings or rhythms.
In reply to FWIW, I interpreted the "Ex"… by Marc Sabatella
Good morning (in Brazil) Marc!
Thank you for the guidance and teachings.
In version 3.5, will we also have the option of transposing only the figures (chord symbols)?
I know that MuseScore 3.5 will be released when it is ready, do you have a forecast for its release date?
In reply to Good morning (in Brazil)… by mjbartemusica1
I would expect an alpha release of 3.5 within the next few days.
Not quite sure what you mean about transposing chord symbols, that's already possible a number of different ways, corresponding to the different common use cases. Literally transposing chord symbols without transposing notes would not normally make musical sense so there is no one single command for it, but you can accomplish that already by transposing the entire passage then moving the notes back.
In reply to Hi, thanks for your… by markshepherd
Good morning mate!
thank you very much for the guidance, although the plugin has some limitations but is of great value.
Once again I want to congratulate you for the spectacular work and wisdom!
In reply to Good morning mate! thank you… by mjbartemusica1
Hi, I have uploaded Version 3 of Expand Chord Symbols to https://musescore.org/en/project/expand-chord-symbols-notes. This version incorporates improved support for parentheses, and an improved Rhythm Pattern feature, and some other minor updates. Please try it and let me know what you think.
In reply to Hi, I have uploaded Version… by markshepherd
Hello!
I'm glad for your effort and wisdom!
I downloaded the plugin and did everything you taught, however, this newest plugin does not appear in the "Extensions" Menu along with the others to be used.
Then I inserted the oldest in the plugin folder appeared in the list and it worked.
But this one that you sent now does not appear in the list with the other plugins ok.
My S.O. is Windows 10 and I have the most current version of Musescore.
Friendly hug!
In reply to Hello Friend! I'm glad for… by mjbartemusica1
Hi, I'm sorry you are having problems. I work on a Macintosh, and have not tested on Windows or Linux, so you are my tester for windows!
After installing the plugin, did you try:
1. quit and re-launch MuseScore
2. do Plugins > Plugin Manager ... and make sure ExpandChordSymbols is checked
Here is what my plugins folder looks like. Is yours the same?
![plugins folder.png]( "plugins folder.png")
In reply to Hello Friend! I'm glad for… by mjbartemusica1
The top one is what you sent now and the bottom one is the old one ok.
Do you know if there is a plug-in to perform the retrograde work, that is, to invert the backward-forward melody? I found this at Sibelius.
In reply to The top one is what you sent… by mjbartemusica1
Your screenshot shows that you placed the new "expandChordSymbols.qml" into your plugins folder. This will not work. Here is what you should do:
1. remove all copies of expandChordSymbols.qml from your plugins folder
2. download the ZIP file from https://musescore.org/en/project/expand-chord-symbols-notes
3. expand the zip file, to get a folder "ExpandChordSymbols"
4. place the ExpandChordSymbols folder into your plugins folder. It should look something like.
Plugins
... other plugins ...
ExpandChordSymbols
expandChordSymbols.qml
expandChordSymbols.js
images
In reply to Your screenshot shows that… by markshepherd
I downloaded the plug-in and did everything you taught; however, this newer plug-in does not appear in the "Extensions" menu along with the others to be used.
The one you sent now does not appear on the list with the other ok plugins.
My OS is Windows 10 and I have the most current version of Musescore.
(Attached files).
Friendly hug!
In reply to Your screenshot shows that… by markshepherd
Where do I find this "images" puglin and what is its purpose?
In reply to Where do I find this "images… by mjbartemusica1
"images" is part of the ExpandChordSymbols plugin. It comes in the ZIP file. You don;'t have to do anything with it. When you unpack ExpandChordSymbols.ZIP, there will be a folder called ExpandChordSymbols. Move that folder into the Plugins folder, that's all you have to do.
In reply to "images" is part of the… by markshepherd
Entendi.
In reply to "images" is part of the… by markshepherd
Good morning (in Brazil) markshepherd!
Were you able to open the PDF file referring to my computer screen capture and understand my message that the plugin appears in the "plugin" folder and does not appear in the "Extensions" menu to run?
Hug!
In reply to Good morning (in Brazil)… by mjbartemusica1
Thanks for the PDF file. Yes, I understand your problem. Here is how to fix it -
In reply to Thanks for the PDF file. Yes… by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd
All right, I followed your guidelines now it worked perfect. The plugin read all the chords with parentheses, including a Gsus chord, very good !!
Attached file for you to enjoy.
Once again I congratulate you on your work, dedication and intelligence. Especially the affection and patience to help me.
If you create or know more interesting and important plugins, please ask me to let you know ok
See you soon friend!
In reply to Hello markshepherd All right… by mjbartemusica1
That is good news!
In reply to That is good news! by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd!
I am contacting you with the desire to perfect and thank you for your immense idea and intelligence!
In an arrangement and I believe you know this song, the chords with Major Seventh are recognized as Major Seventh. Is it a characteristic of the cipher?
Another thing: including the Roman numbers, there is only one chord during the song
Attached files for your enjoyment.
Thank you friend!
In reply to Hello markshepherd! I am… by mjbartemusica1
Hi MJB, thanks for your comments!
The plugin doesn't recognize chord symbols of the form "C7M". For a major seventh chord, you can use "CM7", "Cma7", "Ct7", "CΔ7", and various other forms.
Sinto muito, the plugin does not yet support roman numeral chord symbols. :(
When there are 2 chord symbols at the same place in the score, the plugin's result is undefined.
I hope this helps,
-- Mark S
In reply to Hi MJB, thanks for your… by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd!
The plug-in is usually inserted in the plug-in folder and appears normally in that folder, but it does not appear in the list of the Musescore extension manager to be loaded, what could be happening?
This was not happening previously.
I loaded it into the plug-in creator and tried to run it from there, so it gave an error message why it doesn't run.
Attached file...
Much obliged!
In reply to Hello markshepherd! The plug… by mjbartemusica1
Thanks for the PDF file. Yes, I understand your problem. Here is how to fix it. Please follow these instructions exactly...
In reply to Thanks for the PDF file. Yes… by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd!
I carried out all your orientations but the problem remains that is, the plugin appears in the plugin folder where it is installed but it does not appear in the list of Musescore plugins ok.
I have two computers with Windows 10 and all two with the same problem.
Do you know if there would be anyone else with this same inconvenience?
I am immensely interested in this plugin, as this tool is exceptional for making educational material.
I hope I can fix it soon ...
Friendly hug!
In reply to Hello markshepherd! I… by mjbartemusica1
Any reason not to just use the builtin facility in 3.5? It works in the Alpha as well as any nightly build.
In reply to Any reason not to just use… by Marc Sabatella
Desculpe, mas estava funcionando perfeitamente no 3.4.2, de repente não apareceu mais na relação dos plugins...
O que quer dizer construção noturna?
In reply to Desculpe, mas estava… by mjbartemusica1
Nightly builds are the latest versions of MuseScore, not release yet but available for testing, which we very much like for people to help us do. You can get them by going to the Download / Software page (see link above in menu at top of this page) and scrolling down a ways. The 3.5 alpha is right there at the top. if you've never installed a nightly build before, you might find the 3.5 alpha easier. It's very stable, I use it every day and have for weeks.
In reply to Nightly builds are the… by Marc Sabatella
It's very stable
Addendum: just make sure to have a score open when going into the preferences window, so it won't crash when you come out of it.
In reply to Nightly builds are the… by Marc Sabatella
Good afternoon Marc!
Sorry for my sincerity, but this plugin is more objective and practical than the added version 3.5.
The two have different objective functions, the plugin transforms figures into chords on the staff (which I need). Version 3.5 recognizes the cipher but mixes the cipher notes (chords on the staff) with the melody, leaving a confused musical understanding.
Hug!
In reply to Good afternoon Marc! Sorry… by mjbartemusica1
You mean the plugin creates a new staff for you? It's trivial to do that yourself of course, just put the chords on that staff. If you mean something else, could you explain in more detail, ideal with a sample score?
In reply to You mean the plugin creates… by Marc Sabatella
Isso mesmo Marc!
O plugin cria ou "criava" uma pauta com os acordes baseado nas cifras. Isso poupa muito trabalho ao invés de inserir nota por nota ou ter que usar um teclado Midi.
Isso é possível naquela ferramenta da versão 3.5?
Abraço!
In reply to Isso mesmo Marc! O plugin… by mjbartemusica1
Well, as I said, you need to create the staff yourself. But if you do, then yes, just right click a chord symbol, choose Realize Chord Symbols, and you get a voicing for the chord (lots of different choice for that available) right there in the staff.
In reply to Well, as I said, you need to… by Marc Sabatella
Hello Marc!
I have tried to use the tool several times. It turns out that the cipher is interpreted but takes care of the melody. the melody disappears, leaving the chords on the staff and staff that I created or used, you know?
The plugin leaves or "left" the melody as it was and the chords on the staff appear in the team below.
Tool files for version 3.5 attachment ......
In reply to Hello Marc! I have tried to… by mjbartemusica1
If you want the chords on a different staff from the one that contains the chord symbols, it's just an extra five seconds of copy/paste. For example, starting with your first version:
1) select all chords symbols
2) realize chord symbols
3) select the measures on the top staff
4) copy
5) undo
6) click bottom staff
7) paste
Lots of other ways this could be done, best method depends on the specifics of your situation.
In reply to If you want the chords on a… by Marc Sabatella
Hello Marc!
After his teachings I used the tool and came to the conclusion of the attached file.
Sorry for my sincerity, due to my needs I still prefer the plugin that worked. I hope the developer solves the problem.
Thank you!!
In reply to Hello Marc! After his… by mjbartemusica1
The goal of the built-in facility is to sound good, not to just give the raw literal meaning of the notes. For that a plugin might be preferable indeed. The notes you put in do not sound good at all, they are too low and muddy. But for teaching purposes as opposed to actual listening purposes I could understand why you might want that as it is indeed easy to read.
BTW, the reason some of the chords are not working as you expect is you have written them incorrectly. C7M is not a thing, it should be CM7.
In reply to The goal of the built-in… by Marc Sabatella
Olá Marc!
Sou profundo admirador do seu conhecimento.
Vocé é um Professor altamente competente que sempre eu gostaria de ter.
Em relação ao plugin o desenvolvedor não retornou. Há esperança de corrigir o inconveniente para voltar a usar e funcionar?
Abraço!
In reply to Olá Marc! Sou profundo… by mjbartemusica1
Sorry, I have little insight into the world of plugins or the details of this one in particular, but I know plenty about how to help people use the features of the program itself. In the end it doesn't matter to me if you or anyone else uses the plugin or the built-in facility, I just don't want to see people not trying the built-in feature and thus not providing us with the feedback we need, nor do I want to see people rejecting it because they could immediately how to use it to get the results they wanted.
In reply to Sorry, I have little insight… by Marc Sabatella
Em um futuro próximo seria possível realizar a formatação do segundo exemplo que mostrei?
Vocé até concordou para certas ocasiões didáticas.
In reply to Em um futuro próximo seria… by mjbartemusica1
Sure, it could conceivably be added as a new voicing style. Feel free to submit a formal Suggestion for this to the issue tracker - it could be called a "vanilla" or "simple" voicing.
In reply to Sure, it could conceivably… by Marc Sabatella
Olá Marc!
Como você entendeu minha proposta didática em relação ao reconhecimento de acordes, fico muito feliz.
Como não tenho conhecimento em inglês, eu poderia realizar a sugestão incorretamente. Diante disso, você poderia realizar este procedimento? Tenho certeza que todos os usuários do MuseScore irão ficar contentes por este importante recurso.
Abraço!
In reply to Olá Marc! Como você entendeu… by mjbartemusica1
Actually, I don't really understand why you'd want to do this. If it's just to produce a worksheet or two, a plugin should do the job well enough, but for any real world usage, the existing feature is already better. I'd need to know more about the unique situation in which you are trying to use these voicings in this way in order to understand how to make it function in a way that was useful for that purpose. Feel free to explain n more detail. It's OK to write in Portuguese, but please run it through Google Translate first.
In reply to Actually, I don't really… by Marc Sabatella
Olá Marc!
O objetivo que imagino em relação a interpretação de acordes, para fins didáticos e de entendimento, a ferramenta poderia possuir uma opção de ler as cifras conforme a segunda equipe que enviei em anexo no contato anterior e envio novamente. Os acordes ficassem em posição fechada e com uma opção de mudança do baixo quando necessário. O plugin que realizava este procedimento parou de funcionar inesperadamente, ele aparece na pasta de instalação Plugins mas não aparece na relação de plugins dentro do Musescore. Já comuniquei ao desenvolvedor mas até o momento ele não retornou... Alguma ideia ou sugestão sobre isso?
Abraço!
In reply to Olá Marc! O objetivo que… by mjbartemusica1
What I don't understand is that the plugin didn't generate simplistic voicings like this either = it used inversions as appropriate according to my understanding. So I'm not really understanding the different you are perceiving here, except for the extra bass note.
Also, again, please run your requests through Google Translate before posting to the English forum. We don't mind providing assistance here, but we ask that people do us that courtesy.
In reply to Thanks for the PDF file. Yes… by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd!
Any hope of finding out my previous report?
Hug!
In reply to Thanks for the PDF file. Yes… by markshepherd
Hello markshepherd!
I carried out all the guidelines and teachings you provided me, but the problem remains. That is, the plugin appears in the "plugin" installation folder but no MuseScore "Extensions" appears.
Is there any hope of correction so that I can work with this plugin on my Windows 10?
Thank you!
In reply to Olá markshepherd! Realizei… by mjbartemusica1
Hi MJB, your PDF file "mensagem PLUGIN.pdf" shows me that the plugin is incorrectly installed. My message on Jun 2, 2020 - 02:47 gives the correct install instructions. I don't know what else to tell you.
In reply to The top one is what you sent… by mjbartemusica1
A quick look at the plugins page shows https://musescore.org/en/project/new-retrograde
I'm pretty sure it doesn't handle tuplets well though.
In reply to A quick look at the plugins… by jeetee
Good night Jeetee!
Thanks for your helpfulness and intelligence in letting me know about this plugin, I hadn't found it.
I'll install ok
Friendly hug!