copy/paste and xml export don't retain fingerings
even with fingerings checked in the selection filter, the paste does not contain the fingerings. And when the xml file is imported into other music programs such as finale, the fingerings are not there.
Is there a way to add new articulations? That would solve the problem for me.
There should be a way to vertically align articulations too...
Comments
I can't reproduce either problem. I created a score, added a few notes with fingerings to the first measure, copied the first measure to the next, fingerings came along as expected. I then exported the file to MusicXML, imported back into MuseScore, and the fingerings were still there. This is with 3.5 alpha, but while it's possible the MusicXML export was only added that recently, I'd be surprised if copy/paste was ever not working
.
So, what version of MuseScore are you using, and can you attach your score and give precise steps to reproduce the problem?
In reply to I can't reproduce either… by Marc Sabatella
It happened and I have the file to prove it. However, when i tried it from scratch a 2nd time, it did not exhibit the same problem but it does something else weird. When you transpose tablature up half a step, it re-fingers the passage instead of just moving the fingers symetrically. It's got some really peculiar bugs
In reply to It happened and I have the… by Jack A. Zucker
here's a screen shot of the first issue. you can see that fingerings are selected.
In reply to here's a screen shot of the… by Jack A. Zucker
Are you perhaps refering to the tablature staff as "fingerings" ?
In reply to Are you perhaps refering to… by jeetee
no, fingerings are the p i m a notation in the upper staff. My other beef is that there seems to be no way to apply an articulation to only the treble notation staff
In reply to no, fingerings are the p i m… by Jack A. Zucker
If the two staves are not linked, you can most certainly apply articulations or anything else to one staff only. You can prevent them from being copied using the Selection Filter. If the staves are linked, then by default most markings appear on both staves but you can make anything invisible you like by pressing “V”, and that works for the staves independently.
In reply to It happened and I have the… by Jack A. Zucker
Again, we’d need the actual score - not just a picture of it - to do more than guess. But in this case, there is a pretty easy guess - it has nothing to do with copy/paste, which works just fine, but with the setting on your tab staff, which are probably set to not show fingerings because that was the default requested by most users. If you want to show fingerings on a tab staff, be sure to enable them in Staff/Part Properties, Advanced Style Properties.
Not sure what you mean by “refinger” in this co text, but it is correct and normal in MuseScore that pretty much any operation you do that adds new notes or changes the changes the pitch of existing ones triggers MuseScore to recalculate which string and fret to use.
In reply to Again, we’d need the actual… by Marc Sabatella
Mark, look at the jpg. The fingerings are missing on the treble staff, not the tab staff
In reply to Mark, look at the jpg. The… by Jack A. Zucker
It’s impossible for me to know what is missing without knowing what specifically you copied and where you pasted it. So again, we really need the actual score and precise steps to reproduce the problem. I can only say that I’ve performed thousands upon thousands of copy operations and never lost a single marking*, so there is probably a simple explanation, but right now all we can do is guess.
*actually not entirely true, I know there have been a few special markings that were not copied by design or oversight in older versions, most of them have been fixed. But fingerings have never been a problem.
BTW, nice to see you here!
In reply to It’s impossible for me to… by Marc Sabatella
here's the file, good to see you here too.
In reply to here's the file, good to see… by Jack A. Zucker
Can you give precise steps to reproduce the problem you saw?
Here is but one example I tried:
1) click empty spot in first measure, top staff, to select it
2) cltr+c to copy
3) click last measure, top staff, to select it
4) ctrl+v to paste
Now, perhaps you tried copying from the standard staff to the tab staff? That would indeed lose the fingerings, because as mentioned, fingerings are deliberately suppressed on tab staves. I suppose we could consider trying to make it so this type of paste operation somehow still detects that the fingering was there originally and thus preserves the fingering on the linked standard staff.
To vertically align any set of selected articulations, just give them the same offset in the Inspector and make it large enough that autoplace doesn’t need to move any of them even further from
the staff.
In reply to To vertically align any set… by Marc Sabatella
for the "paste not pasting fingerings" bug I was working in treble clef only. The pattern is 11 notes so I was selecting the first 11 notes, copying with ctrl-c, selecting the next available free 8th note rest (& of 2 in bar 2) and doing a paste. What I was getting was the notes and articulations but not the fingerings. However, like I said, I input the notes again in a 2nd document, added the articulations and fingerings and this time the paste pasted both the fingerings and articulations. But this document seems to have an issue.
By the way, can I add my own articulations? I would prefer to enter all my articulatings and fingerings with the same tool. And can I assign hot keys to the articulations like finale does so I don't have to continually click on things in the palette?
In reply to for the "paste not pasting… by Jack A. Zucker
I doubt the problem is with the score, I can't reproduce with this one either. Can you? If so, please list the precise steps. But I tried selecting the first 11 notes and pasting it a bunch of places and never got a problem unless I tried pasting directly into the tab staff. If you're positive you didn't accidentally paste onto the tab staff, maybe you can remember more about something unusual you did? Either that or perhaps it was a random power spike that flipped a 0 to a 1 somewhere, but I know of no other reports of problems like this, and as I said, I've never said it myself.
As for articulation, not sure what you mean about adding you own, but you can customize the palettes easily by just dragging elements around, deleting them (which actually just mores them to an area hidden behind the "More" button), also create your own palettes, etc.
Many of the articulations already have shortcuts defined - Shift+S for staccato, etc. Some other can be customized in Edit / Preferences / Shortcuts. Eventually we hope to design a scheme to allow shortcuts to be assigned to any palette element, even custom ones.
In reply to I doubt the problem is with… by Marc Sabatella
i just reproduced it with the original. It turns out if you only copy/paste the treble staff there is no problem. However, if your copy includes the tablature, when you select your destination (treble clef) and paste, you do not get fingerings.
In reply to i just reproduced it with… by Jack A. Zucker
Confirmed, looks like a side effect of what I mentioned before - pasting into the tab staff loses fingerings, by design since they are turned off there, but somehow it should be possible to detect that the source had fingerings on the standard staff and reinstate them there. Doesn’t normally come up in regular use because the whole point of linked staves is you don’t have to worry about the tab staff at all, so no need to include it in copies or pastes.
But definitely worth filing as an official bug report to the issue tracker, use Support / Issue tracker above, or Help / Report a Bug from within MuseScore.
In reply to for the "paste not pasting… by Jack A. Zucker
Oh, also - you can define a shortcut for adding fingering (although it defaults to piano style fingering). Once you’ve added one fingering of the type you want, you can then edit it and enter as many more as you like by just typing, pressing Space to move on to the next note, like you would lyrics.
In reply to Oh, also - you can define a… by Marc Sabatella
What about adding new articulations so I can do articulations and fingerings in the same tool?
In reply to What about adding new… by Jack A. Zucker
As I said I’m not really clear on what you mean by adding new articulations - which new ones would you want? But you can customize the palette however you like, dragging articulations into the fingerings palette or vice versa. Or add a new custom palette with just your favorites. There are also thousands of additions symbols on the Symbols palette (press Z to display, or use View / Master Palette). And you can add custom graphics as well.
But also as I said, normally you wouldn’t use the palette for fingerings, it’s less efficient then then simply typing them in most cases. enter the first from the palette so it’s the right type (guitar RH in this case), then double-click to edit, press Space, type another, press Space, type another, etc.
In reply to As I said I’m not really… by Marc Sabatella
it doesn't matter which ones, I just want the ability to add any articulation that I want to like you can in finale. Finale had the same issue. The articulation tool didn't originally contain left and right hand fingerings and it was awkward to enter them using different tools. So I just added p i m a c and 1 2 3 4 to the articulations and then I can use the same tool to enter everything I need and align them and edit them and treat them the same. The articulation editor allows you to specify font too so if you want special symbols you can put those in there.
In reply to it doesn't matter which ones… by Jack A. Zucker
You can add any articulation you want to. That's why I'm not understanding what you mean by "new articulation" in this context. Are you talking about inventing your own? You can do that, just creating the graphic and add it to the palette. Or maybe you mean, one of the thousands that already have symbols in the Symbols palette, well those can simply be dragged in to the palette as well. Or maybe you just meant you want the bow markings to be on the fingerings palette? Or the fingerings on the articulations palette? Just drag them over, as I already said. You can even add things to the palettes directly from your score, Ctrl+Shift+drag. So you can create whatever custom text or line or whatever you like and add it to whatever palette you want.
An important thing to realize about MuseScore as opposed to Finale is that these palettes are not separate tools. There is just one big Palettes window that happens to divided up into individual palettes for your convenience, but how that division works is entirely up to you. As I said, you're welcome to create your open palette and put just your favorite symbols on it. Many of us do exactly that.
As for aligning, though, this also isn't clear what you mean. Are you saying you literally want fingerings and articulations aligned with each other, all in one horizontal row? That's non=standard, so it won't work that way out of the box. But it's easy enough to get that to happen, just create the fingerings and articulations as text, using the Special Characters palette to access the symbols for the articulations you want. And these too can be dragged to your own custom palette, so you can have them all in one place. Then you can easily enter the articulations while typing your fingerings, by simply clicking the symbol in the palette.
So, tons of flexibility here.
In reply to You can add any articulation… by Marc Sabatella
Yes, I'm talking about adding my own. i tried to find that in the manual or by clicking around in the Ux but didn't have much luck.
But you're saying there is NO difference between a fingering and an articulation in Musescore? That they are the same type of element just subdivided by the tree structure in the Ux?
In reply to As I said I’m not really… by Marc Sabatella
Using the method you describe, can I enter articulation symbols too? If not, they should consider that as a feature
In reply to Using the method you… by Jack A. Zucker
Not sure which method you mean, do you mean for typing fingerings? Sure, if you know the code to type the symbol for the articulation symbol you want, you can add that to. But otherwise, if you've added the characters as text to your palette, you can just click a palette symbol while typing to enter it. As I also mentioned,d you can define keyboard shortcuts for the box markings, so really most of the common articulations can be entered directly by keyboard.
As always, providing really specific examples of what you want to do - which articulations you are most wanting to add, where you want to add them, how you want them aligned - will help us assist you best. MuseScore provides lots of ways of doing things that will each be optimized to different particular use cases. You've mentioned what seems to be a non-standard alignment of articulations and fingerings, so seeing a picture of what you want to achieve would help us understand better.
In reply to Not sure which method you… by Marc Sabatella
the specific example is that I've entered a system of music and I want to go through the music, note by note or perhaps in bulk, adding pick articulations and right hand fingerings. I don't want to go through the music twice, nor do I want to have to click on separate palettes. I would prefer to do it all through shortcuts and hitting a [next] button on the keyboard to progress to the next note. From your previous reply, it sounds like that is possible.
Is there a drag select to allow me to select elements like notes, articulations, etc?
In reply to the specific example is that… by Jack A. Zucker
You, again, depending on which specific articulations you mean and exactly how you want them aligned, it's all possible, the best way to do it just depends on those details.
Shift+drag lets you select, but it's not necessarily the easiest way to do selections, there are many other more powerful ways to, like to select all similar elements on a single staff in one operation, or to easily select a range of music with click / shift+click like you would in a word processor. See the Handbook more much more on ways of doing selections.
In reply to You, again, depending on… by Marc Sabatella
mark, i added p i m a to articulations but I can't see where to assign articulations to shortcut keys. Also, I tried your trick of adding an articulation and then hitting the spacebar but spacebar just starts playback.
In reply to mark, i added p i m a to… by Jack A. Zucker
ok, i figured out how to get the space to work but it only works for fingerings. It doesn't move the input position on articulations.
In reply to ok, i figured out how to get… by Jack A. Zucker
Correct, that's why I suggested adding the ones you want to you palette as text from the Special Characters palette. While editing a fingering (or any text), press F2 to display the Special Characters, find what you want, drag it to your favorite palette. Now you can apply it while entering text with a single click in the palette.
This method makes sense if having it layout the same way as fingerings is the main goal and is more important than any playback considerations. As I said, the best method to use really depends on the specifics of your particular situation - which symbols you mean, how the layout rules work for them, whether they have playback effects, whether they are among those that can have direct shortcuts defined, etc.
In reply to mark, i added p i m a to… by Jack A. Zucker
Shortcuts can only be defined for the specific commands that were were designed to be able to. This includes the bowing markings I saw in your score, also standard things like staccato & accent that already have them predefined (Shift+S, Shift+V. As I said, eventually we hope to come up with a way to allow defining shortcuts for any palette items, even custom ones. I actually spearheaded a project to do this a couple of years ago, but the code never made it in, and now the palettes have been redesigned/reimplemented so that work will need to be redone.
Meanwhile, though, it does work to just use left/right arrow keys to move through your score and click them in from the palette. You can also use shortcuts to access the palette and navigate within it using arrow keys, and there is also a command for which you can define a shortcut that immediately re-applies the last-used palette element. So even though there is not the ability to assign direct shortcuts to each and every palette item, it's usually quite possible to develop an extremely efficient keyboard-based workflow.
In reply to Shortcuts can only be… by Marc Sabatella
thanks @marc sabatella, i take it you are one of the coders for the project? I appreciate all the help. I think i'm going to be able to ditch Finale (finally). The issue for the workflow you propose with the arrow keys is that I am right handed and both the arrow keys and the mouse are occupying my right hand so it's not as easy to hit the right arrow and select the symbol from the palette because I have to switch from the arrow keys to the mouse. I should be able to program the button keys on my mouse to do left and right arrow moves though so I'll give that a shot. I still found it a bit funky to get the symbols aligned. Is there any way to select only the symbols ? For example, I created a new palette called Jaz Symbols and copied the up and downbow and some other symbols in there but the custom palette is not included in the selection filter.
In reply to thanks @marc sabatella, i… by Jack A. Zucker
I am indeed one of the many developers.
It's true that the workflow isn't the same as Finale, and while we strive to make it as efficient as possible and to make it as keyboard accessible as possible, we haven't really thought to much about optimizing it for one hand on keyboard only. Still, you shouldn't need the mouse at all here, everything I described is doable keyboard only if you choose. One thing I didn't mention: Shift+Tab will transfer keyboard control to the palette, then the arrow keys move you around. Lots and lots to explore and come up with new workflows, but it won't be the same as Finale. Many things will be considerably more efficient, some might still be a little less, but in general it will just be different. I was a Finale power user until switching to MuseScore a decade ago, took me about a month to reach the a comparable of efficiency, within a few more months I was much more efficient than Finale ever let me be overall.
As for aligning, I would again reiterate it is much easier to help if you can be more specific - exactly which symbols you want to align. Ideally by attaching an actual score showing the symbols you want.
The Selection Filter is by element type, not palette name. This gets back to what I said about the palette really being just one tool divided into separate palettes for convenience. What's important is the element itself, not the specific palette you happened to add it from (after all, it might have been added via keyboard shortcut or menu or other means). But the Selection Filter isn't really relevant here, it's for excluding things from a range selection, not building up a selection one element type at a time. It can't be used to select only fingerings, for example. Instead, you want the Select menu that appears when you right-click - lots of options for building a list selection, which is what you'll want here.
Or, it's also possible that the alignment you want can be set up completely automatically by appropriate style settings. This is again why we really need more specifics in order to help.
In reply to I am indeed one of the many… by Marc Sabatella
I'm attaching an exercise I did. However, This exercise was done using articulations only but i found even with unchecking everything in the selection filter except articulations, drawing a selection rectangle around the whole score did not select the articulations as I would have expected. Additionally, if I select the first articulation, I would expect shift click on the last articulation would select them all but it doesn't.
In the future, I will have all articulations and fingerings configured as a custom palette with special characters but there seems to be no way to select all the symbols from a custom palette that I can find...
In reply to I'm attaching an exercise I… by Jack A. Zucker
As I said, the Selection Filter won't help you here. It is only about excluding things from range selections, not building up list selections (an important distinction in MuseScore. Basically, if you see a blue rectangle, it's a range selection, and must contain notes/rests, not just symbols.
Funny you should mention click / shift+click as a way of selecting a list of articulations - I actually just implemented that a few days ago. Hopefully it will be in 3.5 (it's not in the alpha, might be in the beta that will come soon). Instead, for now, select the range first, then right-click one articulation and use Select / All Similar Elements in Range Selection. There are also lots more options under "More" in that menu.
I guess you aren't using the bow symbol to mean what it normally means, so the defaults for placement and playback etc mighty not be what you want. Right now iut's still not clear how you want them aligned - in groups of four with the fingerings? Or have everything on the entire system all aligned? Again the best way to proceed depends on the desired results. In this case, as I mentioned, you might be best off adding the bow mark as text / special characters so that they are treated more like fingerings by default.
In reply to As I said, the Selection… by Marc Sabatella
i just like them vertically aligned like this: These are for a book, not a chart...
In reply to i just like them vertically… by Jack A. Zucker
In that case, easiest method is to probably to enter them all as staff text, actually. Because otherwise you'll just be fighting the normal rules for placing fingering and articulations. If the goal is to go this in using keyboard, I'd press Ctrl+T to add staff text, type the first fingering, use Alt+Right to move to the next note (Space only works for things like fingering, lyrics, or chord symbols, where embedded spaces are rare), etc. The bow symbols would be added from the Special Characters palette (or a custom palette of your own), but I don't see an easy way around that. But since everything is staff text, all you'd have to do if set the style default for vertical offset of staff text and everything is aligned perfectly right away.
Probably if it were me I'd leave the bow markings out and add them in a second pass, where I just ctrl+clicked the notes I want to add to, then I could add the staff text to all of them at once from a custom palette (create one staff text that way up front, Ctrl+Shift+drag it to palette). Or perhaps rely on the "Apply current palette element" command (for which you need to define your own shortcut) so you can easily apply it on the fly during that second pass.
I can't think of a really good way to apply everything in one pass and get the disparate element types to align.
In reply to In that case, easiest method… by Marc Sabatella
thanks mark, see my posting about the musicxml tablature bug. It's a bad one IMO...
In reply to thanks mark, see my posting… by Jack A. Zucker
Hmm, I’m not seeing it for some reason. Just the original report which lacked detail and as I said I couldn’t reproduce. Best to start a new thread with sample score and steps to reproduce the problem.
In reply to Hmm, I’m not seeing it for… by Marc Sabatella
i did with attachments and steps
In reply to thanks @marc sabatella, i… by Jack A. Zucker
but by the way, i finally realized what you mean regarding right clicking on the element and selecting similar items. Thx!