Surprise grand staff as a combination of instruments

• Aug 31, 2020 - 21:28

The attached file resulted when I created a new single-staff, treble-clef part at the top of the score using piano as the instrument. (I have renamed the part but its instrument is still piano.)

To my surprise, MuseScore has, unbidden by me, grand-staffed the new part's staff with the violin part's staff.

Out of curiosity, why is this the default behavior? And how can I make it stop? I tried looking around in Staff/Part Properties but I couldn't find anything that would seem to address this strange and surprising behavior. Sorry if this is super obvious but the handbook doesn't seem to mention this.

Attachment Size
Amor_Gitano with C&V backing Gm tacet 16 bars.mscz 32.93 KB

Comments

• Sep 1, 2020 - 03:45

I don't understand.

If you mean there is a bracket there like on a piano, then select the bracket and delete it. You can also double click a barline in the top staff, then drag the bottom box (that will be a little obsured) up so it spans only the top staff. When you click off the bar line all of the others on that staff will follow.

If none of these apply then be specific about what you don't think looks right.

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 04:16

Sorry, I think if you would open the example file everything would be clearer.

Deleting the bracket does not uncouple the staves. Bar lines still span the space between the staves, for example. I suspect that by doing many things I could make it the way it should be. But that's inconvenient. And I don't see a reason for the existing behavior so I think it's a bug.

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 04:22

Just to be clear: I have found workarounds. No doubt your suggestion could work as well.

But this is a community and reporting a bug is not an affront. Reporting a bug is a service. I am spending my time to do this. It is not helpful to be combative nor to ignore the question of whether the observed behavior is really desirable. That is really the key question IMHO.

I am ok for now no matter how that question gets resolved. No further workarounds needed.

Thank you for the suggestion.

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 04:47

I've never seen what you describe happen on its own. Piano grand staves in MuseScore to do not split into two different instruments that look like a grand staff. They don't split into two different instruments at all. I think I'm now beginning to understand what your claim is. The question is how did it happen? If you could explain how to make it happen again, then someone could determine if it's a bug or something you did unknowingly.

Forget workarounds, that's obviously not what you want. Let's make it happen again and file a bug report if appropriate.

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 05:51

OK, I think my initial post outlined how to reproduce the problem, but I will try to be very clear and explicit here.

  1. In MuseScore 3.x, open the file that's attached to this particular reply, not the original file I posted to illustrate the bug.

  2. Once the file is open, type "i" to open the instruments dialogue.

  3. Click the arrow by "keyboards" and then click on "Piano." Click the "Add" button.

  4. Click the up-arrow button in the middle of the dialogue several times to move the new Piano instrument to the top of the list.

  5. Click on "Staff 2" to select it, and then click the "Remove" button.

  6. Click "OK" at the bottom of the dialogue.

  7. Observe that despite your having told MuseScore that you wanted just a treble-clef single piano staff, you now have the treble-clef staff you asked for, but it is joined in a grand staff with the Violin staff that was already present.

The observed behavior in step 7 seems wrong to me. When a single-staff piano instrument is added, there should be no new grand staff created. And even if a "grand" staff were created in that situation, it should contain only the new single piano staff; it should definitely not subsume a staff that was already present and that is not part of the newly added piano instrument.

Attachment Size
test_bug_deleteme.mscz 32.33 KB

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 07:56

Yes, thank you for finally acknowledging that it is a bug. As I mentioned earlier I had long since figured out a workaround, so that part is already taken care of; my workaround is even easier than manually hacking around with barlines.

I did not and do not intend to quibble about what is the strict and precise definition of a grand staff. To me, anything with a bracket and barlines joined between staves seems like a grand staff so that's why I used the term. Whether it is represented internally using a data structure whose name includes "GrandStaff" or some similar string really is not what I was trying to write my report about. I think any user would look at this erroneous behavior and say that the concept of a grand staff is somehow involved.

But what is important is that there is a bug, now it is reported, and maybe someday someone capable will be interested in fixing it. Thanks again.

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• Sep 1, 2020 - 08:12

I understand that it might save you work for me to do that; if you are a MuseScore developer / contributor I already owe you a large debt of gratitude for making my life better through this software.

But given the amount of push-back, misunderstanding, quibbling, and diversion I encountered just by trying to provide what I thought was a straightforward problem report, I will politely request that someone else more qualified than I -- perhaps you? -- enter the issue in the issue tracker using terms and descriptions that will not engender a repeat of the uphill battle. I feel it was worth it to me to do that work once, but not twice.

I fully acknowledge the unfairness because you and many others have surely put in work far greater than the issue-re-reporting work I am asking not to do. But it is my sincere hope that you feel most of the time you have put in has not been wasted, whereas I feel put off because this thread made me fight so hard to get taken seriously.

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