String tuning tables for transposing instruments
I first call attention to the fact that the conventional guitar is often notated as a transposing instrument, being notated one octave higher than sounding pitch. Often in musical discussions this is not considered a "transposing" situation, since a notated "C" is sounded as a "C". But of course a transposition by one octave is still a transposition.
But in other cases, this instrument is notated at "sounding pitch" ("concert pitch"), an 8va basso treble clef often being used in that case to keep the notes on or near the staff.
MuseScore sets up some guitar-family instruments on one of these bases and some on the other, this seemingly being to cater to the differing outlooks of the scorist. That's nice.
In MuseScore, the tuning tables that reflect the open tuning of the strings of a fretted stringed instrument, and which govern the transformation between "regular" notion and tab notation, are cast in terms of the notated pitches of the strings in the particular notation setup in effect (i.e., transposing or not). Thus, for the same actual tuning of a guitar, the "tuning table" in a part set up as transposing will be different than the tuning table in a part set up for non-transposing notation (perhaps on an 8va basso clef).
This can be very confusing to the scorist, who knows what the open string pitches for the instrument he contemplates writing for are, but has to in some cases offset them by an octave when entering them into the MuseScore tuning table. This of course is not desirable, and can cause grief to the scorist.
It would be more desirable if the "tuning tables" used in MuseScore were always cast in terms of the actual open pitches of the various strings (regardless of the notation situation of the part involved). MuseScore of course has (should have) the transposition interval in effect for the part involved, and so properly performing the transformation between regular and tab notation should be no problem.
I recognize that were MuseScore to adopt this outlook, it would raise a daunting problem as to forward- and backward-comparability of score files. I will not try and get in front of that matter and suggest an approach for that.
Just sayin'
Best regards,
Doug
Comments
If you right-click on the stave and choose Stave/Part properties, you can edit the individual strings to produce the actual pitches you want, then save as a custom template. Would this help?
In reply to If you right-click on the… by Brer Fox
Hi, Brer Fox,
The issue is that in doing so, for a transposing instrument, we must enter not the actual open pitches of the strings (which is the way we probably know them) but rather the way those pitches would be notated in transposed form. For the typical guitar score, written transposed up an octave as is often the practice, this amounts to a one-octave discrepancy between the string pitches as we know them and the pitches that must be entered into the "tuning table" in MuseScore.
I think this situation is not desirable for the scorist.
Thanks for your thoughts.
Doug
In reply to Hi, Brer Fox, The issue is… by Doug Kerr
Try using the "concert pitch" button on the top toolbar - https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/transposition#concert-pitch. It will let you enter notes as they sound. Turn it off when you are finished and the notes still sound the same but appear as they should to the player. At least I think it should work here but I haven't actually tried it. If it doesn't then raise a feature request.
In reply to Try using the "concert pitch… by Brer Fox
Hi, Brer Fox,
That changes the pitch of the notes on the score. But it does not overcome the problem with how the string pitches must be entered into the tuning table.
Best regards,
Doug
In reply to Hi, Brer Fox, That changes… by Doug Kerr
Fair enough - I obviously don't understand what your problem is or what you mean by the tuning table. I use MS for ukulele, lute and lyra viol without any difficulties but haven't tried and don't need the guitar.
Good luck
In reply to Fair enough - I obviously… by Brer Fox
Hi, Brer Fox,
This is what I call the "tuning table":
By the way, all this only comes into play if we have tab notation. The "tuning table" governs the transformation between regular notation and tab notation.
Best regards,
Doug
In reply to Hi, Brer Fox, This is what I… by Doug Kerr
Yes, that's what I thought you meant. Do you want to create a guitar tab with linked staff notation but without the 8ve clef and so sounding at concert pitch, i.e. an octave above how a normal guitar would sound? If so you can set up your score for "soprano guitar" - go to Create New Score > General > and then double click on 'choose instruments'. This will take you to the full list - scroll down and open Strings-plucked to find soprano guitar.
In reply to Yes, that's what I thought… by Brer Fox
Hi, Brer Fox,
You wrote:
"Do you want to create a guitar tab with linked staff notation but without the 8ve clef and so sounding at concert pitch, i.e. an octave above how a normal guitar would sound?"
No.
I want for a scorist who wants a guitar part, for a guitar with a "custom" tuning, notated on a transposing basis, to be able to enter the actual string open pitches of that tuning in the tuning table.
For example, suppose that the scorist has in mind to write a guitar solo for a guitar tuned:
D2-A2-D3-G3-A3-D4
(written in the usual order guitar tunings are written or remembered, starting with the lowest string).
And suppose he wants the score to be notated on a transposing basis, one octave above sounding pitch (as is very common for guitar scores, and perhaps expected by his "client").
But when he enters the string open pitches in the tuning table, he must enter these (from "top down"):
D5-A4-G4-D4-A3-D3
Of course the order is reversed from what I wrote earlier, as the tuning table in MuseScore is understandably arranged to match the way the strings would be represented in the tab staff, highest string first. But more importantly, all these pitches have to be entered one octave above what the actual string pitches are.
It's not a problem for me, as I am not a guitar scorist. But I have a good friend who is, and he reminds me that this can be very confusing to guitar scorists.
Thanks
Best regards,
Doug
In reply to Hi, Brer Fox, You wrote: "Do… by Doug Kerr
The attached test score file illustrates this matter.
Both parts are set up as done by MuseScore when selecting instruments defined by the instrument definition file (but I have edited the name of the second instrument to show which version it is).
The first instrument ("Classical Guitar") is set up as non-transposing, notated on an 8va basso treble clef staff.
The second instrument ("Guitar- treble clef") is set up as transposing, written an octave above sounding pitch on a treble clef staff.
In both cases, the concert pitch view is of notation on an 8va basso treble clef staff. (The Concert Pitch button makes no change in the appearance of the notation for the first instrument.)
Both show the same note pitches with Concert Pitch on. Both sound any given note at the same pitch.
Both are predicated on the same "tuning"; that is, the set of open pitches of the strings. Yet we see that the entries on the tuning table are not the same between the two parts.
Doug
In reply to The attached test score file… by Doug Kerr
"Both are predicated on the same "tuning"; that is, the set of open pitches of the strings. Yet we see that the entries on the tuning table are not the same between the two parts."
Well yes, of course they are, because you set the second one up as transposing. You can see this in the option under the tuning table - it's doing just what you asked for.
If a composer with custom tuning doesn't like it, they could instead start with the classical guitar template where it is easier to create the custom tuning. When the piece is finished they can set up another blank UNLINKED staff (plain treble clef) and tab score. Copy and paste first the tab then the staff into the new unlinked score. The staff notation will be at concert pitch so lots of ledger lines, but it is easy to transpose it up an octave and turn off playback in the Inspector.
Set up templates for whichever method is preferred.