Slurs tied to rests
Wondering if there is a more elegant way of handling this (see attachment). I cannot seem to slur from a rest to a note following. I added an invisible grace, which worked but also added extra space to the measure.
Thanks.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| Screen Shot 2021-06-14 at 9.13.50 AM.png | 47.87 KB |
Comments
Indeed, ties are connecting adjacent notes of the same pitch only.
And not even slur attach to rests.
In reply to Indeed, ties are connecting… by Jojo-Schmitz
I am curious. Is a slur from a rest a real thing? How should one play it?
In reply to I am curious. Is a slur from… by SteveBlower
If it were a thing, MuseScore would support it, I guess
In reply to If it were a thing,… by Jojo-Schmitz
As for the example… I don’t know if it’s a thing, and I’d be wondering about playing it.
But I encountered this scenario (including for ties) when there are repeats. Ties and slurs across repeats are notably tricky and currently impossible to get right.
In reply to I am curious. Is a slur from… by SteveBlower
I do appreciate it when people are helpful. Though I must say that I now fully anticipate that when I ask how to do something, someone will always, always respond with "now why on earth would you want to do THAT?". I'm nearing 60 and I've studied music since grade school. I've seen so many ways to write and engrave music, much of it non-standard. I think it's safe to assume that the people here who need to know how to achieve something know what they are doing and why it needs to be done in a certain way. I'm not singling out anyone in particular as it seems to be just a general type of response that people feel compelled to contribute.
In reply to I do appreciate it when… by Soolip
Although "Why do you want to do that?" has not been asked here, I think it is generally a good question, especially when a user asks how to do something that is apparently outside the bounds of standard notation. Perhaps the user knows of notation cases that are not yet implemented in MuseScore and which could and should be implemented. Perhaps, as in this case, a user is asking how to do something using a workaround (tie from a rest) rather than the actual thing (slur from a note in one voice to a note in another voice) they wanted to achieve. Perhaps the user does not know that the thing they are asking for is not part of standard notation and can be advised what the more usual way of notating their objective would be. Perhaps the user misunderstands terminology and is asking about one thing (e.g. ties) when they mean something different (slurs). "Why do you want to do that?" is surely part of the process of providing useful assistance by exploring the user's request and making sure it is fully understood. If you are a frequent reader of the forum you will know how often a user's question is not understood, whether as a result of mis-formulation by the user, mis-reading or misunderstanding by the responder, and less than useful advice is provided as a result.
In reply to Although "Why do you want to… by SteveBlower
Even bystanders learn when this question is asked.
I learnt that notes can be notated to be doubled (on different strings then, I guess? though how do you do that when one is held for longer? not a strings player…) and we all learnt that the rest slur would be better notated as slur across voices (which I had automatically used in scores already without thinking about it).
In reply to I do appreciate it when… by Soolip
Thank you all for your perspectives. Things I hadn't thought of.
In reply to I am curious. Is a slur from… by SteveBlower
Yes, slurs to rests are a real thing in music. You can find examples in this piece by Ravel: https://youtu.be/XnTmtjO6IKI?t=147, "La Vallée des Cloches".
I believe it is to indicate how to pedal.
In reply to Yes, slurs to rests are a… by SnakeGnim123
If this is the part that you are talking about, it also seems like putting 4 and a half beats in a bar is a thing:
![Screenshot_20240418_070423.png]( "Screenshot_20240418_070423.png")
In reply to , [inline:Screenshot… by underquark
whatever that is, it’s worthy of printing out on thick, heavy paper and hitting the engraver with, tbh…
In reply to whatever that is, it’s… by mirabilos
Publishers get to do whatever they want. So do composers. That doesn't make it correct. It just makes it what they did. It doesn't mean it has to be reproduced. Most of these slurs/ties seem to indicate that the notes should be held full value. It seems to me that the composition would convey that without extra markings. Besides, interpretation is completely up to the performer. No two performers will play this the same way. Perhaps Ravel marked things this way.
I know the question is about how to reproduce this. Which is legitimate, and has been answered. But the why is also important. I'm kind of happily surprised that no one has brought up Gould.
In reply to Publishers get to do… by bobjp
Oh, I’ll happily bring up Gould.
> A tie […] extends between two noteheads of identical pitch.
Slurs are defined in terms of ties and also between notes though not limited to noteheads.
There’s open ties: laissez vibrer which is better engraved by writing
l.v.to avoid the use of fully open ties, and ties to a subsequent rest or barline to hold for the full length; in general, open ties are to hold one note for more than its notated length. Pedal markings use 𝆮 and 𝆯 exclusively and never use open ties.Slurs that are not between notes (heads or stems) do not exist.
In reply to , [inline:Screenshot… by underquark
Nine eighth notes in the first and third staff, but ten in the second. (Unless I'm counting incorrectly?)
But the notation is easy to do in MuS:
It could use some slight adjustments to the specific positions of the ties, but they are "ties" (in the MuS definition). This second screenshot should make it obvious how I did this:
The invisible notes in Voice 2 are set to not play, of course.
In reply to Indeed, ties are connecting… by Jojo-Schmitz
Not true. Look at the example. In effect, the slur is tied to another voice. This is not possible in MS, so it needs to be tied to the rest, indicating the passage is to be played in one bow stroke.
In reply to Not true. Look at the… by Soolip
Best not to use the word "tie" here, instead say "attached" Otherwise it causes confusion since there no ties here, only slurs, and they get confused enough as it is!
Anyhow, no reason you can't slur notes from different voices. Just Ctrl+click the first and last, then press "S" or click the palette icon. The default layout is below in this case, which I think is probably better anyhow, but you could always adjust it if you are trying to copy a specific source exactly.
In reply to Best not to use the word … by Marc Sabatella
Thank you. By "tie" I meant "linked", not in the musical sense.
Thank you for the "control-click" info. I did not know this feature existed, and it worked perfectly.
In reply to Not true. Look at the… by Soolip
Slurs (and ties) can connect notes from different voices, in MuseScore
I believe that what is meant is as I explained below:
Measure 6: Implied:
![Untitled.png]( "Untitled.png")
Measure 19: Engraved:
In reply to Measure 6: Implied: Measure… by Ziya Mete Demircan
This means something different than the example with the rests, as it indicates the Gs are to be doubled.
In reply to This means something… by Soolip
In the spirit of trying to be helpful to other people trying to follow this thread, I have a few questions about your original image.
![slur.png]( "slur.png")
1. Is this an actual example you have come across?
2. You said " indicating the passage is to be played in one bow stroke." What do you mean by "passage"?
3. Is the second measure in this example more what you are after?
If so, start the way Marc suggested. After adding the slur, select it and hit "x". You can drag one end of the slur around to where you want it.
However, I am nearing 70 and have studied music since grade-school also. Regardless of how this is notated, We must try to be accurate in the asking and the answering. Someone asked how this could be played. I have the same question. I ask what you mean by passage because it seems like you are referring to the first two slurred notes as a passage. This does not fit any definition I know of. Doesn't a passage mean at minimum of a phrase? You were asked how to play this because,as you have written it, it is not playable. Why? Because the slur over the last two notes indicates a bow change. Which can't happen if the first note is to be held 3 beats.
Someone asked about this and was meant with a complaint.
As it is, I think we still do not understand what it is you are asking.
In reply to In the spirit of trying to… by bobjp
Thank you. Marc indicated there is. way to slur between voices by control-clicking the first and last notes you wish to slur, and this achieved what I wanted without having to add invisible grace notes.