Why is MuseScore making strange decisions about displaying sharps in imported score?
I have imported a piece from a PDF file. It's a part for a Bb instrument that I need to practice with my real instrument, so with Concert Pitch turned off, it looks like the part I play on my instruments and sounds correctly pitched. (With concert pitch ON, the key signature is two flats as expected).
Having scanned it in and corrected as well as I can, I am finding the, for example, some 'C' notes (but not all) are consistently displayed as B#. All of the highlighted notes in this section are C in the original PDF but the first two display as B#:
I can select the first two notes, move them up a semitone and back down, then they display correctly. If I respell pitches, these two change back to B# (but not the others). This seems to happen to various notes throughout the score and almost seems to keep reappearing.
So ... why these specific notes?
And how can I stop it?
Thank you.
Comments
It is not MuseScore making this decisions, but Audiveris, the software behind musecore.com's PDF import
In reply to It is not MuseScore making… by Jojo-Schmitz
OK - well having got it into MuseScore, there is no longer any input from Audiveris.
Is there anything I can do now to stop MuseScore from displaying the notes inconsistently?
For example, I edited the notes to rests and then re-entered them as C. So those notes no longer had any properties associated with the import. They displayed correctly until I respelled pitches but they reverted to showing as B# again. So there is something in the document which causes it. Am I stuck with it? Would I have to re-enter the entire score by hand in order to get rid of this 'infection'?
This seems odd. Please post the pdf.
In reply to This seems odd. Please post… by bobjp
I have attached the PDF and the file that gets imported (after changing the voice to Bb Clarinet).
Look at bar 164 in the imported file: all 8 quavers are the same note but MuseScore displays the first 5 as G# and last 3 as Ab.
You can adjust them by moving them up and down to make them display the same, but respelling the pitches reverts them.
PDF:
Cl5SigBrusch.pdf
Imported file:
imported bffe6d3ffa088e485101b01ab3d54145415755ef.mscz
In reply to I have attached the PDF and… by TheOnlyMagicbean
Measure 164 is completely different in the two files.
In reply to Measure 164 is completely… by bobjp
That's because the PDF import doesn't seem to cope with multi-bar rests and the bar numbers get messed up.
The point is, that this is how it ends up in MuseScore - so I would like to know what I need do to the MuseScore document to get it back under control.
If you import the original PDF and change the instrument to Bb Clarinet, I think you will see several parts of the score will redraw with the same unwanted effect.
It's almost as if some parts of the imported score have invisible key changes.
In reply to That's because the PDF… by TheOnlyMagicbean
i know nothing about writing music, but i can read scores a little and compare the notes to notes in the pianoroll of my DAW. now in the .PDF nor in Musescore i can see meter changes, but when i export the .MCRZ to MIDI and look in my DAW, i see lots of meter changes; Measure 34: 5/8 - C and after some twenty more meter changes measure 161; 2/2 - 1 flat (F), and some 10 more meter changes in C
.so there seem to be more hidden signs in that conversion.
(can also be an export error from Musescore of course)
regards bottrop
In reply to That's because the PDF… by TheOnlyMagicbean
i deleted all meter settings except M1 1/4 and M2 2/2 in my DAW, saved, then conversed it in Musescore to .MSCZ
In reply to That's because the PDF… by TheOnlyMagicbean
If you disagree with the choices made by the "respell pitches" AI algorithm, then don't run it - just go with the defaults that were already present in the original MusicXML file that was imported and/or correct the ones you disagreed with in the original (eg, by press "J" - faster than Up/Down or Down/Up). And then, don't ask MuseScore to overwrite your work by rerunning the respell pitches algorithm.
In reply to I have attached the PDF and… by TheOnlyMagicbean
"Respell pitches" is an AI algorithm that attempts to find the best spells for notes based on some research done years ago that analyzes intervals between notes horizontally to find optimal spelling. But, AI is never perfect, sometimes it makes decisions based on things might make sense in some other situation but don't here. So I wouldn't be relying on that except as an occasional quick way to turn complete nonsense into something slightly more reasonable.
Anyhow, assuming you don't run Respell Pitches, MuseScroe simply displays what it is told. If the original MusicXML file it was given specifies Ab, that's what it will display. If the PDF said something different, then any discrepancy would be due to the PDF converter.
In reply to "Respell pitches" is an AI… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks Marc, that makes sense. In the process of tidying up a rather messy import I was using respell pitches a lot in conjunction with trying the get the notes realigned with their positions in the bars. I was doing it with several notes at a time notes selected assuming that the command applied only to the selected notes, not the whole score. (Would that be an easy change to make)?
I kept finding notes that I thought I had already corrected and I think that's why I was getting confused.
Thanks.
In reply to Thanks Marc, that makes… by TheOnlyMagicbean
It's a known issue indeed that the command ignores the selection. The way the algorithm works, it needs context to make its decisions, so it wouldn't make sense to run it on, for instance, a singe note, or a bunch of notes of the same pitch only. That's what the "J" command is for. But indeed, it would be better if the command simply did nothing if the selection isn't large enough, instead of defaulting to the whole score. It seems this is already fixed for MuseScore 4.
In reply to It's a known issue indeed… by Marc Sabatella
Great, thank you. And also thanks for the reminder about the 'J' key; I had known it in the past and forgotten it. It is definitely a much easier (and less error-prone) way to make the note displayed correctly.
In reply to Great, thank you. And also… by TheOnlyMagicbean
Maybe I've missed something. I imported your PDF into MuseScore.
The Concert Pitch button does nothing because MuseScore thinks this is already thinks it is in concert pitch.
I see no B# notes. Even if I transpose the part.
Yes, there are bogus key changes and no multi rests.
In reply to Maybe I've missed something… by bobjp
I also had to set the stave properties transposition down a major 2nd to Bb and then transpose the whole piece using the Tools > Transpose... menu to the key of Bb. That leaves the score looking the same as it would be issued to a Bb player with concert pitch off and plays back at the correct pitch. With concert pitch on, the display shows a key signature of 2 flats as the conductor / composer would see.
In reply to I also had to set the stave… by TheOnlyMagicbean
I went to Transpose directly. No Staff Properties involved.
In reply to I went to Transpose directly… by bobjp
The PDF I imported was already created ready-transposed for a Bb instrument. (The import program doesn't know that). If I just transpose as you suggest, it does indeed transpose the score but then makes it not correctly displayed to play on the transposed instrument. That's why you have to set the stave properties to keep the written notes displayed the same..
In reply to The PDF I imported was… by TheOnlyMagicbean
OK. I didn't recall you saying that you wanted to play along with it.