Custom clefs
Many wind instruments, wooded flutes, but also brass instruments exist different tunings - different frequencies generated by constant finger sets. It is therefore comfortable to write all scores with a common clef (for example: a violin clef) where the music notation with respect to the clef only indicate finger positions, but not absolute frequency. If I want to do so, I'd like to mention somewhere that what is written a C is in fact an A (this is just an example).
One way to do so would be to shift the clef symbol up-and down. Another, more easy one seems 
But text annotations seem not to stick to clefs, but only to notes or pauses, which is odd. How could I achieve such an annotation of the clef?
Thank you
Comments
Why not use the standard method of writing for transposing instruments? The relevant section in the MS4 handbook has not been written but it will be similar to the method in MS3. Start by choosing the instruments you want for your score, e.g.”clarinet in A”. Then, read the following :
“Concert pitch
MuseScore's default viewing mode shows the musical notation in written pitch, but you can choose to display the score in concert pitch instead. In the latter mode, the musical notation of all instruments matches the actual pitches that you hear on playback.
“To change the view to concert pitch: Press the Concert Pitch button to highlight it.
You should ensure that the Concert pitch button is OFF before printing the main score or any parts.”
You don’t need to monkey around with the clef, as the instrument name will show as “clarinet in A” . As a general rule it is always better to use standard music writing conventions, rather than inventing your own.
In reply to Why not use the standard… by Brer Fox
Well, good thought, but does not seem to work for all instruments. Example: select as instrument A-duduk, set a C note between lines 2 and 3. You should hear 440Hz "a" now. But you don't. Only workaround is to lower the synthesizer to a=380 Hz, approx which is very odd.
Maybe some "rare instruments" are not correctly set up in musescore (3) ?
In reply to Well, good thought, but does… by tititata37623874
Are Duduks transposing instruments? In MuseScore 3 they are all treated as non-transposing instruments.
I don't know what's right.
The sound of the Duduk seems to be that of a clarinet in MuS 3.
So if you want the Duduk to be a transposing instrument, use an A clarinet and simply rename the instrument to A Duduk. Both have the same pitch.
![Duduk.png]( "Duduk.png")
In reply to Are Duduks transposing… by HildeK
I confess I had never heard of a Duduk before, so I looked it up on Wikipedia. It sounds very similar to a clarinet but you could try adding a duplicate stave for oboe d’amore (which is also in A), then hide that stave but use both for playback.
PS just seen rothers’ post !
In reply to Are Duduks transposing… by HildeK
Armenian music has a long oral (and not written) transmission tradition; but yes, most modern books use transposing notation for a-duduk, h-duduk, c-duduk. etc.
But the workaround is nice, thank you.
BTW: I could record a " real duduk sound ", if someone helps to integrate that one into musescore afterwards :)
In reply to Armenian music has a long… by tititata37623874
I don't know what a duduk really sounds like, but if Brer Fox thinks the oboe sound is more realistic, you can also change the sound of the renamed A clarinet to oboe in the mixer.
I confess that I had never heard of a duduk either :-)
In reply to I don't know what a duduk… by HildeK
Addendum:
![Example.png]( "Example.png")
I found a sheet of music with a non-transposing duduk, so the decision of the MuseScore developers to implement these instruments non-transposing is understandable:
In reply to Addendum: I found a sheet… by HildeK
I never said that does not exist, but that most modern scores are transposing. I refrain from providing a list here, I won't fight. My point is that even if my impression was totally wrong: Who serves whom? the choice for transposing or nor should always be with the note-setter, not over his head via some programming.
That should be general for all instrument choices: a "transposing menu" that let you do what fits to your needs. See rothers post below.
In reply to I never said that does not… by tititata37623874
I can understand your objection.
Why don't you make a feature request for your suggestion, which I think is quite good.
However: some (many?) amateurs already have problems understanding these features of transposing instruments. At least that's what I have to assume from some of the questions in the forum. Therefore, in my opinion, it still makes sense to have the frequently used instrument transpositions available as a separate instrument, e.g. trumpet in Bb, horn in F or alto sax in Eb.
Isn't something similar already prepared in MuS 4 (I can't use it)? For example, you choose the clarinet and in a second step whether it should be notated in A, Bb, Eb etc., as far as I remember.
In reply to I never said that does not… by tititata37623874
"That should be general for all instrument choices: a "transposing menu" that let you do what fits to your needs. "
You can set the instrument transposition to whatever you want in the Staff/Part properties. See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/transposition#transposed-interval.
So, start with whatever instruments sounds closest to a duduk and if you want it to transpose in A, set the transposition to be down a minor third. While you are in the Staff/Part properties dialogue you can change the long and short instrument name.
That leaves the part name. To change that open the Parts menu and click on the three dots to the right of the instrument name (it will currently have its original name) and rename the part to whatever you prefer. See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/parts#renaming-duplicating-and-dele….
Once you have done that you could save a score with a single Duduk instrument as a template so that you can re-use it in the future.
If you want the instrument added to Musescore as a standard instrument you will need to request it on Github giving details of the instrument, its transposition(s) and its "amateur" and "professional" usable pitch range and which sound should be used as default. But don't hold your breath. Other requests to add much more widely instruments have still to be fulfilled.
In reply to "That should be general for… by SteveBlower
[cite] You can set the instrument transposition to whatever you want in the Staff/Part properties. See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/transposition#transposed-interval.
[/cite]
you are right! That menu even exists in MuseScore3 already, I just didn't find / realize it ... Thank you!
In reply to I don't know what a duduk… by HildeK
I think it sounds like a cross between clarinet and oboe, hence my suggestion of combining the two for playback. But to keep things simple, to my ear it is closer to the clarinet.
In reply to Well, good thought, but does… by tititata37623874
The Duduks are indeed set up in Musescore 3 in concert pitch not as transposing instruments (unlike for example the clarinets). So yes your notated C will sound a C at 532,35 Hz.
You can easily change the Duduck to a transposing instrument using stave/part properties to get consistent fingering across the various tunings, up a third in the case of the A-duduk so notated C sounds 440 Hz, if you like without resorting to some custom clef scheme.
P.S. just seen HildeK's post
In reply to The Duduks are indeed set up… by rothers
Noticed also the Tin Whistles (an instrument I play) are set up wrongly as non-transposing instruments in Musescore 3. Tin Whistles are available in a vast selection of tunings but they are played using the same fingerings as the common D whistle unless you are mad :) and the notated music is transposed to suit.
It seems to me that this needs to be thought of the same way recorders are. We think of an alto recorder as being in F. But it isn't. The low note is an F, but is fingered the same way a C is on a soprano recorder. The alto player reads standard notation, though sometimes, alto clef.
It appears that Duduk works the same way. It doesn't read transposed music. The instrument is the transposition. So when a player sees a part marked (as MuseScore does) "A Duduk" the player uses that instrument. The music doesn't need to be transposed. The Instrument does it with a different fingering system. The composer has to know the ranges they are working with.
In reply to It seems to me that this… by bobjp
OK. here is where the OP can help. Is this a transposing instrument like, for example, an alto sax? Are there different versions that play different ranges? All I've been able to find is basically one type. Some sources call it "A Duduk". Some sources show a fingering chart starting on F# and moving up. Some for the same instrument show those fingerings with an A major key signature, starting on A. Some show the same notes without a key signature. We need to know what is supposed to happen. What does printed music for this instrument look like. So far, different publishers do things differently. What is it the OP wants to have happen, exactly.
In reply to OK. here is where the OP can… by bobjp
The "resonnance chamber part" of the duduk --which looks like a flute with giant holes-- comes in different lengths which gives their "main pitch".
![MainBg.jpg]()
.So if an A-duduk (most common choice) is requested in a score, you grab that one, if a H-duduk is requested you better change instrument, since many half-tones do not sound that well - you will have to partially close/shade the flute holes and compensate with volume flow, pinching the reed and whatever. And still it is less beautiful. So a in order to play in some ensemble you probably want to have several duduks of different length.
In reply to The "resonnance chamber part… by tititata37623874
Are Duduks like tin whistle Diatonic ? Hence, aside from some 1/2 holing fudgery etc, the need for many different tunings to play in different keys.
In reply to Are Duduks like tin whistle… by rothers
A standard A-Duduk goes (in concert pitch) from F# (all 9 holes closed)-G#-A (220Hz)-b-c#-d-e-f#-g#-a(440hz) with all holes open; there is also a grave E below the F#, but you need a big big belly or use a leg to close that 10th hole which on the bottom side, but inaccessible with a thumb :-)
You can produce higher tones (a b is rel. accessible) by squeezing the reed with you lips. The plain g is as-well a nice sounding half-holing note; all other half-tones are difficult, I guess like a on wooden baroque flute, or your tin whistle.
In reply to The "resonnance chamber part… by tititata37623874
The original question was about creating a custom clef for "A Duduk". And MuseScore has Nine different labels. Here are a few:
![duduk.png]( "duduk.png")
My question is if a group is playing a piece in A major, does the Duduk player grab the A Duduk? And does the sheet music for the Duduk have a key signature?
In reply to The original question was… by bobjp
Complicated question. Since trad. music does not really use minor/major scales. For example the "oriental sounding" c-b-a-g#-f-e-d-C (playing downward) with the big step (g# - f ) appears in many pieces. Example "Keler Tsoler".
If pure minor is requested, the "written d-minor" is probably most natural scale for an A-duduk (even if the high octave d is not easy to play) : in concert pitch that is b-minor (unless I got confused now:). Shifting means that for a (concert pitch) a-minor, you'd go for the G duduk (biggest one the picture I posted).
In reply to Complicated question. Since… by tititata37623874
Ups! You asked for major. That would be done on the A-duduk, indeed (but written as a C-major)
In reply to Ups! You asked for major… by tititata37623874
So the challenge is how to use MuseScore to notate non traditional music. Especially if we want MuseScore to be able to play it. Although that might not be important. So if you were to write a piece for voice, Duduk and Piano or some stringed instrument. What key, if any, would it be in, and what would the parts look like?
In reply to So the challenge is how to… by bobjp
.
In reply to Complicated question. Since… by tititata37623874
That is an A harmonic minor scale staring on the 3rd, which is nothing out of the ordinary.
In reply to That is an A harmonic minor… by SteveBlower
@ bobjp:
Now that it’s been established that the Duduk is a transposing instrument, like a tin whistle or a clarinet, the answer is simple: if using Duduk in A, then its part would be written in C / Am, while the voice and piano parts would be written in A / F#mi. If using Duduk in G, then its part is written in C but the voice and piano parts would be in G. Cf Schubert’s Shepherd on the Rock for voice, piano and Bb clarinet https://musescore.com/user/109859/scores/753161
I think too that you misunderstood the recorder family in your earlier post - recorders are not transposing instruments (except sometimes at the octave). The finger PATTERNS are the same on the descant and alto - all fingers down play the lowest note, so C on the descant and F on the alto. But the notes are written at pitch, and the player has to use different fingerings for the same note on the different instruments. E.g. to play C on the descant, use all fingers down; to play C on the alto use only the three fingers of the left hand, i.e. the upper three holes (+ thumb in both cases, of course).
In reply to @ bobjp: Since it’s been… by Brer Fox
@ Brer Fox:
Please read that post again. I never said recorders are transposing instruments. Perhaps you miss understood the instrument does the transposition comment. But, as I own and play a complete set of recorders (except for a great bass) I think I understand how they work.
There does not seem to be agreement about how to write for a non-Western instrument, in general. You can adjust the transposition in staff properties, and get MuseScore to playback properly. Though traditional players may or may not care about that.
But, again, the original question was about making a custom clef to say which Duduk to play. MuseScore already has a way to do this. In the "All Instruments" selection. But it treats them all like non-transposing.
In reply to @ Brer Fox: Please read that… by bobjp
My apologies - I did indeed misunderstand you.
Steve Blower in his post of 6 Feb above describes a way of doing what they OP wants, and using templates for the various instrument keys should be a reasonable workaround.
In reply to My apologies - I did indeed… by Brer Fox
Gotta love written communication. Easy to mix up. I've never had a problem........(I wish)
In reply to @ bobjp: Since it’s been… by Brer Fox
I know nothing on recorders, maybe we keep them out of this discussion.
The first part of the answer is right, as the following extract of a recent book (ISBN-10 = 1706415907)
![discussion.png]( "discussion.png")
shows. You just write them with different keys, since the instrument transposes.
Here is an extract from "dudukhouse.com" free downloadable fingering sheet
![discussion2.png]()
The important line is for all Duduks ... a similar table is in
(ISBN-13 = 979-8650027041) etc.