Grouping instrument sections together
I really would like to have a way of grouping instrument sections together.
This would very much reduce some problems with creating and handling scores with a large number of instruments.
There are ways of reducing some of the issues by use of the Parts feature, but those methods, while better than nothing, don't really address some of the larger scale problems - simply pushing effort back to the end user. The whole point of software is to make the computer do the work, not the user.
Thus what I really want to see is a more hierarchical structure for instruments. Perhaps Dorico already has something like this -
For example: not sure if this "text diagram" will work here- [if it's not clear enough I'll do a graphic diagram - looks like the diagram will fall apart on most screens - so will redo shortly ....
Now done as a graphic ...]
This is a well known computer style tree structure, with possibly many levels.
The nodes of the tree would correspond both to staves in the score, and also to channel strips in the mixer.
Just as templates can be set up to enable easier construction of scores of different types, nodes could also have templates - which themselves could be adapted - either by removing instruments, or adding more.
Thus to set up an orchestra one could just define it as:
Orchestra = Woodwinds + Brass + Percussion + Strings + Other
where
Woodwinds = Flute+Oboe+ Clarinet+Bassoon
and Brass = Horn+Trumpet + Trombone
and Strings = Violins + Violas + Cellos
and Percussion = Timpani + Cymbals
and Other = Keyboards + Off-stage-band
Keyboards = Piano + Celesta
etc.
Visibility of staves in a score could be switched on or off for any node, while sound levels or muting or soloing could be set for each node in the mixer.
Also nodes in the mixer could be made visible or not, so if all the channels were to be seen, then all the nodes down to the bottom level would be displayed, but otherwise less information could be displayed - say just the overall levels and faders for the woodwind, brass etc.
This would seem to me to be far more flexible than trying to use parts and templates as they are currently available.
Features like this are available already in some DAWs - so it would seem to be feasible.
Comments
I must be missing something. This seems more complicated.
In reply to I must be missing something… by bobjp
No - not at all. It's very much simpler.
The point is to try to use reuse as much as possible - either by reduction or augmentation.
Initially there would be some set up, but once done it would be easy.
First set up each section - winds, brass, percussion, strings.
Not necessarily every instrument - new sections could easily be defined by extension or reduction.
Then to create a sccore, just simple enter each section, and they would be pulled in.
Also other features would become possible - such as filtering instruments.
In reply to No - not at all. It's very… by dave2020X
If you say so. Great if it works for some. Still having trouble thinking this would help in my orchestra work. I seldom, if ever, do anything by groups of instruments. Would this help me hear the violins, trumpets, horns and CB all together? I easily use a few templates for setup. Or just one instrument at a time for special setups. If I use groupings, I'd still have to delete things.
In reply to If you say so. Great if it… by bobjp
Of course it doesn't work for anyone in MuseScore right now, as the feature doesn't exist. The idea is not to stop you doing what you do now, but rather to enhance it so that you don't have to keep altering templates - adding or deleting groupings.
What does exist in MU4 right now is a parts feature which allows grouping - and that is admittedly quite nice - and can be used to check scores and to balance parts in the mixer, or maybe spot other issues.
It has taken me quite a while to understand how to use Parts to work with a group of instruments, rather than just each instrument by itself - but I can confirm that it does appear to work.
However it is not perfect yet - and that is what the suggestion for grouping is/was intended to overcome.
For example, if you have a large score - perhaps similar to one I've been working on recently - and it has vocal parts, these can be separated out - for example Men and Women - and called Vocals. Playback of the parts then works in the normal way by pointing the cursor at a note and hitting the space bar or play button.
Sadly, at the moment, the mixer shows all the channel strips - not only the relevant ones. What it should do - what I'd like it to do - is to only show the channel strips associated with currently visible parts. That would make it easier to pick out the parts which might need attention, rather than having to peer at many different channel strips.
Doing this is actually showing me quite a few things right now - such as I don't really want to have Men and Women groupings - I really do want SATB so I can balance the voices out spatially - and possibly also in loudness.
It is also showing me that there may be a bug or two in the parts features.
What the current parts feature doesn't allow me to do is to edit a group of parts, or balance the sound in a group, and then combine that grouping with other similarly balanced or edited parts.
The point is - just as in syntax analysis in computer science - not only to treat end nodes [here instruments] as objects, but also any other node in the tree structure shown in the diagram. Each tree node would be associated with printed scores and mixer settings, and would also have its own configuration for the mixer to make things easier to work within.
Have you tried the Parts feature with groups of instruments? It is interesting, but currently does seem to have some - hopefully minor - problems.
I highly recommend that you do try the parts feature to group instruments and voices together and you should spot the kind of thing I'm trying to explain here - as well - perhaps - as a few more bugs in the system.
In reply to Of course it doesn't work… by dave2020X
The largest scores I work with are 15 or occasionally 20 instruments. I have no trouble scanning the mixer for what I need.
Hopefully, someone who works with large scores will join in.