Can I start a note very softly then increase in volume using a single note?
I am using MS 3.62 and am adapting a score that plays a variety of chords and single notes starting very quietly, then building quickly in volume within one note. Each note is like a "violin soft expr", where the note begins at a ppp then builds to a pp or p within a single 1/4 measure. It sort of looks like this:
Notice that its takes three notes to notate this. In a score with 25 instruments, that gets very tedious fast. Is there any way to use a single whole note only which starts very quietly then rapidly gains volume like the above? Any dynamics combos or articulations or ornaments, or ... I'd like it to look a bit like this (this combo doesn't work)?
I know that MS 4.4 will do this, allowing hairpins and dynamics to be placed anywhere in a measure so they take effect anywhere, not just attached to a note, but I am still using MS 3.62 for a variety of reasons that are too complex to discuss here.
Is this possible in MS 3.62 or am I stuck with multiple notes per measure?
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Comments
Actually hairpins don't work quit that way in MU4.
What does the score look like?
Does it help if you use the Fast Expr. sound instead? I always did to get the SND to work.
In reply to Actually hairpins don't work… by bobjp
Bob: Thanks for answering. Unfortunately, the score I'm working on is not written down in any public way. It is a movie soundtrack track that I am listening to and adapting with MS 3.62 by ear.
Not sure what you mean by stating that "hairpins don't work that way in MS 4". Do you mean they do not allow one to increase a single note from quiet to loud by just using hairpins somewhere before the note occurs in the measure?
Anyway, given I have to listen to the track to adapt it, I can't believe the original composer had to write 3 notes for every instrument in every measure to tell the orchestra to start every note quietly and then swell the sound quickly. There must be a way to do that in MS so that the virtual player plays the note quietly then louder quicker, no ...? If so, how?
The Inspector's 'Velocity', 'Velocity change', and 'Change speed' controls for dynamic markings should allow you to achieve the effect you want. For example, ppp-p could be entered as a p dynamic marking with a low velocity, say 30, a velocity change of 20, and a change speed of 'fast'. You have to play around with the actual values, but you get the idea. If only MS4 hadn't taken this functionality away from us. It's essential if you want to make music from your scores instead of merely playing notes.
In reply to The Inspector's 'Velocity', … by Peter Schaffter
Peter: Holy Cats!!! I tried it out using a "p" under a whole note, with a velocity very low at "5". a velocity change of 40, and a velocity speed of "normal". IT WORKED! The note I tried started out very quietly, then rapidly gained volume to 40, just as I wanted within 1/4 of a measure. I never used velocity change or speed before, so this is just GREAT! I will now have to fix all the notes in my score to delete all the 3-note dynamics and fix it all, but ... WOW!
I totally agree with you that MS 4 does not have an ability to edit dynamics volumes. They intentionally removed it. That is in fact, exactly why I am not using it. It is really needed!!!!!
Anyway, thanks so much for this.
In reply to Peter: Holy Cats!!! I… by fsgregs
As to your other question, the composer may have used a dynamic marking like "pf". although f is too loud. This is also in MU3 and you can define it the same way.
So Let's say a real group wants to play your score. How would you mark those notes so they would know to start soft and quickly get a little louder. Yes, your playback problem is solved by being able to define the dynamic. But what about real players.
In general, hairpins in MU4 still have to have a dynamic near each end. As an experiment, I was able to get this to work. Starts soft and gets slightly louder by beat two. Obviously not the same as a single defined dynamic.
![pin.png]( "pin.png")
I write for playback, as you know. But I've never defined hardly anything. Does that mean I don't write music?
In reply to As to your other question,… by bobjp
Bob:
Thanks for the expansion. I can see that a "ppp < p" under one whole note can work on real sheet music for musicians, or the Conductor can simply tell the orchestra what to do. It can also work in MS4, but it obviously can't work in 3.62, because only 1 dynamic can be attached to one note, not two dynamics. However, Peter's approach above using velocity, velocity change and speed in dynamics seems to work on all notes that had single note dynamics, such as horns, strings and such. It did not work on piano notes, but I can tolerate that. Hopefully, the designers of MS4 will eventually add volume controls to both dynamics and hairpins in MS4. They promised to do so once ... maybe they'll honor that intent someday. Until then, I must remain with 3.62 because I use and adjust both dynamics and hairpins extensively in my adaptations.
In reply to Bob: Thanks for the… by fsgregs
The ppp is attached to beat four of the previous measure. The p is attached to beat two.
In reply to The Inspector's 'Velocity', … by Peter Schaffter
Peter et al:
I am trying to use the Velocity, Velocity change and Change Speed controls on a dynamic by setting it to "System", so that most but not all of the 24 instruments in my score start quietly, then gain volume quickly. It works but I've discovered that a global "system" setting on the dynamic prevents me from keeping the instrument dynamics that I don't want changed, and won't let me add a dynamic that overrides the global one. Here is an example:
Measure 2 is a piano (2 lines) with a green "system" dynamic present as you outlined above. Line 3 is a horn and the "ppp" dynamic I added to it to keep the horn quiet (ppp) doesn't work, because the global system green dynamic in line 1 overrides all other dynamic marks in that measure. So, either I ignore the "ppp" dynamic in line 3, or remove the "system" dynamic in line 1 and add edited "part" dynamics for every instrument I want to start quietly then gain volume (most of the instruments). I can do that but it is tedious and will make the score very crowded with dynamics marks. Can you think of any other way?
In reply to Peter et al: I am trying to… by fsgregs
You can't override system dynamics; that's sort of the whole point. You have to state the dynamics explicitly for each part if you want them to be different. Yes, it makes the score very crowded, but there's no other way. I wish there were. An average score of mine has hundreds of hidden dynamic marks and hairpins. If you care about tweaking attacks and shaping phrases, you simply have to knuckle under and do it note by note. It's worth the effort, but effort it is. I'm attaching a small snippet to demonstrate. Every one of the hidden and visible dynamics has slightly different properties.
![String_nonet.png]()
Also, FYI, piano sound fonts do not permit crescendo or diminuendo on single notes, so the ppp-pp cresc. at the beginning of your piano part isn't doing anything.
In reply to You can't override system… by Peter Schaffter
Peter: I understand. Because this score has so many instruments, some of which do NOT change volume, I will reluctantly remove the system dynamic and notate every instrument with custom dynamics and hairpins on every measure that needs it. That said, I am confused. If someone wants to play the score as it was originally written, don't they need all the dynamics and hairpins displayed so they know what to do? If they are hidden, will that not confuse how they should handle the music?
Also, what does the hidden apostrophe in measure 4 above the note on the viola mean? I am not familiar with it.
PS - believe it or not, I use a custom Yahama C5 Grand Piano soundfont, and somehow, it does respond to dynamics and hairpins. The ppp-pp dynamics in it do in fact, change the volume of the notes they apply to. Weird!
Frank
In reply to Peter: I understand. … by fsgregs
A performer doesn't need to see the hidden dynamics. They tell MuseScore how to play the way a live musician would play, adjusting attack and swell to create an expressive phrase. If you mark a phrase "p", no performer is going to perform every note of the phrase with the same loudness. (I'm speaking, of course, of classical music.) Then there's the issue of chord voicing and balance; musicians reflexively adjust individual note dynamics according to the musical context. They don't need to be told where and by how much to effect changes. On the other hand, a computer pumping midi through a sampler/synth needs explicit instructions.
The apostrophe is a breath mark. MuseScore's breath mark allows you to introduce small amounts of non-metrical silence into the score by hundredths of a second.
I wouldn't have thought a piano soundfont designer would even think of allowing crescendo on single notes. Shows how much I know. :( Years ago, an audio engineer at Deutsche Gramophon added crescendo to the final chord of something (I forget what) performed by Sviatoslav Richter. You could hear the outcry around the globe. That said, if you're not interested in realism, you can probably get some cool effects out of swell-capable piano samples.