The time I have to spend on fixing corrupte measures is rediculous--not a professional app
I truly appreciate Musescore's value, however, the corrupt measures issue is completely out of control. I'm spending so much time. I have the lastest version, I have a new operating system.
WHAT IS GOING ON?
Doesn't this deserve an official statement from MuseScore?
It is this issue, and playback that are driving me to Dorico.
Comments
Sorry for the spelling mistakes
In reply to Sorry for the spelling… by petercompo1
Instead of a rough and vague complaint, tell us in what score is this happening? Please attach it, or them. That's the only way to understand what's going on, and fix it. For your benefit AND that of the community.
In reply to Sorry for the spelling… by petercompo1
Did you know that you can edit your post instead of posting twice? Click on the three dots up to the right of your post.
> not a professional app
At this stage of Musescore's development, I have to agree.
In some ways, the free Musescore Studio isn't really free. That's the price you pay for it.
> the corrupt measures issue is completely out of control.
Unless you import from other formats, you shouldn't get corrupt measures messages at all (in a perfect world).
In practice, they are caused by Musescore bugs in previous or current versions.
And they are very difficult to fix. To fix such problems, developers need to accurately reproduce the sequence of actions that led to the corruption.
Ordinary users never know or remember the sequence of their actions.
In general, I wrote all this so that you seriously think about Dorico, although I don't know what problems you will encounter there.
In reply to > not a professional app At… by mercuree
Sorry, but can someone explain to a mere ordinary user what this "corrupt measure issue" is. I use MU4 every day and have yet to experience it. As far as other formats goes, every software can have issues. PDF input problems are usually caused by poor quality PDFs. Sibelius has problems sometimes opening an mxl it just made.
In reply to Sorry, but can someone… by bobjp
For example, using section break leads to desynchronization with parts, which in turn leads to an incomplete measure error (see first video)
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/24970
This is not an issue importing from pdf or musicxml.
This is not an issue opening a file saved in a previous versions of musescore.
This is an issue that is fully reproducible from scratch in the latest versions of Musescore, including nightly.
This means that Musescore can, as a result of user actions, leave the project file in an incorrect state.
This should not happen.
The philosophy is simple - the user can do whatever the program allows him to do. In any order. This should not result in a broken measure or file.
In this case, musescore warned the user about the problem.
But firstly, it should not have allowed it.
Secondly, Musescore does not always warn users about problems when saving. Sometimes the problem message occurs when reopening.
And sometimes there is no problem message, but the problem is there (as in the second video)
In reply to For example, using section… by mercuree
> "This is an issue that is fully reproducible from scratch in the latest versions of Musescore, including nightly."
So, won't somebody please describe how to reproduce it? No one has yet. I, like Bob, have never encountered this "corruption issue".
In reply to > "This is an issue that is… by TheHutch
"So, won't somebody please describe how to reproduce it? No one has yet. I, like Bob, have never encountered this "corruption issue"."
What?
What more do you need? https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/24970
In reply to What? What more do you need?… by cadiz1
That said, it's wishful thinking to think that any software (MuseScore and others) would be free of issues, crashes, corruption and other more minor bugs. I followed the evolution of MuseScore versions 2 and 3 very closely: I filed several hundred bug reports, many of which related to synchronization between the main score and the parts. And this is still the case... And I'd be willing to bet some coins that this will still be the case in version 5.
New features arrive that haven't been tested in every nook and cranny, break others, etc. It's a never-ending cycle.
The problem here is that the OP doesn't seem to want to react. If he has a practice and a personal workflow, which leads to stumbling across the same bug over and over again, then obviously he thinks the whole program is screwed up! Whereas those who don't use this feature, or if they do, it's in another sequence of actions, which means they don't encounter this bug.
Well, Dorico. Just look at the release notes, if only for version 5, in the third paragraph, "Others changes and improvements", there's a downloadable PDF (it can't be here, it exceeds the maximum size of 4 MB): https://blog.dorico.com/2024/11/dorico-5-1-70-update-released/
Multiple crashes fixed, and other issues, and new features too of course. How many pages? Over 150 pages...
In reply to What? What more do you need?… by cadiz1
> "What more do you need? https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/24970"
That link is "what more [I] need". No one had posted it up to now and I have never experienced it.
In reply to > "What more do you need?… by TheHutch
It has been posted shortly before already , in a post you replied to.
In reply to It has been posted shortly… by Jojo-Schmitz
Here, in this comment of @mercuree, just before your reply: https://musescore.org/en/node/374156#comment-1276482
In reply to Here, in this comment, just… by cadiz1
Are there other instances of measure corruption? It took me a while to reproduce it because I never do those things. And it is very easy to avoid or correct if you know it happens.
In reply to Are there other instances of… by bobjp
@bobjp
> Are there other instances of measure corruption?
Yes, there are other instances (only mention the open ones):
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/19250
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/25297
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/24186
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/22224
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues?q=is%3Aissue%20state%3Aop…
> It took me a while to reproduce it because I never do those things.
You have a step-by-step instruction.
The volunteers on the forum have only user complaints and an mscz file, from which it is not clear what happened.
Sometimes it takes me several evenings to find a potential sequence of steps. Often after the time spent I do not achieve any result.
Without a result, I cannot send a report to github.
> And it is very easy to avoid or correct if you know it happens.
It's hard to avoid something when you don't know what to avoid.
And it's easy to fix one measure in an artificially created example, but in real scores you need to fix dozens of measures. And you don't know when the problem will happen again.
Musescore keeps you on your toes.
In reply to @bobjp > Are there other… by mercuree
It is no wonder to me that things take so long to fix based on issue reports like these. There are so many times that I said to myself "Why would someone do that in that sequence?" I know that isn't the point. They did it, it caused a problem, so fix it.
In reply to Here, in this comment, just… by cadiz1
[ In response to cadiz's and Jojo's comments above ] Ahh! I had missed that there was a link in that post at all, at all. Thanks!!!
In reply to Ahh! I had missed that there… by TheHutch
Some observations
As far as the first link goes. Did you notice that only the first note of the measure in question is a problem. Of course it shouldn't be a problem. But...In the first example, you change the first beat to a note instead of a rest, it saves fine. In the second example, If you change anything but the first note, there is no problem.
The developers need to be looking for the correct problem. This is not a measure corruption as such.
But as to the original question. Is MuseScore a professional app? Sure. Does it have problems? You bet. I learned some time ago to not work in parts. Or to expect 100% compliance between score and parts. And this was in Sibelius. And MuseScore has problems. Should there be problems? Of course not.
When I run into a problem, if I can't figure out a fix, I don't do that thig any more. But that seldom happens. I see many cases where people run into something doesn't work the way they think it should. They then think it is a bug. Is it? Maybe, maybe not.
In reply to Some observations As far as… by bobjp
@bobjp
> But...In the first example, you change the first beat to a note instead of a rest, it saves fine. In the second
> example, If you change anything but the first note, there is no problem.
The issue was originally reported here.
https://musescore.org/en/node/369528
And the user reported additional measures in parts.
He didn't mention any section breaks. How would he know?
And how would I know? I still don't know what exactly happened to his file. During the investigation, I found out that the presence of section breaks (which are present in his file) can lead to corruption.
Maybe fixing this issue will solve his problem. Maybe not. But I sent a report so that in future versions of Musescore it can be excluded from the list of potential causes.
>The developers need to be looking for the correct problem.
Developers usually write back that they need step-by-step reproduction. It's clear why: it's often a waste of time to try to reproduce an unknown sequence of steps. Perhaps developers need to change the design so that such problems do not arise at all. By the way, the developers could add the ability to save the undo stack. For example, there is such an option in Cockos Reaper DAW
Here is another similar and recent example https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/26207
> Is MuseScore a professional app? Sure.
Maybe someday it will become a professional app.
But now I disagree. In general, I have questions about development, testing, and support.
But I understand that Musescore 4 is a legacy of previous versions, not free of errors and incorrect design decisions.
I also understand that the Musescore team has its own priorities. This is part of the business, in which Musescore Studio does not directly makes money. Sometimes the quality of the product is sacrificed for new features.
In reply to @bobjp > But...In the first… by mercuree
Whether some software is professional or not doesn't depend on quality, but rather on whether it is produced by mainly fill time paid programmers, designers and testers (all professionals) or mainly by part time unpaid volunteers (some of which might be professionals, just not in that company, I'd count Marc and myself to that group).
Check https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/graphs/contributors, contributors 1-6, 8, 9, 11, 12, 14, 15, 20-23 and a few more are or were employees.
Also whether professional users can make money by publishing scores created with that software, and indeed some do.
So MuseScore is a professional software, just like Sibelius, Finale, Dorico, Capella, etc.
You may debate its quality though.
In reply to @bobjp > But...In the first… by mercuree
@mercuree
"But I understand that Musescore 4 is a legacy of previous versions,( this is true) not free of errors (also true, as with any software) and incorrect design decisions (totally your opinion)."
"Sometimes the quality of the product is sacrificed for new features." Sure. But I am totally willing to exchange the things MU4 left out for the new playback system and new sounds. Nothing can save MU3 sounds. Of course those people who don't rely on play back don't agree. And that's fine by me.
In reply to @mercuree "But I understand… by bobjp
@bobjp
> and incorrect design decisions (totally your opinion)."
Everything I write here is my opinion.
But my opinion is based on what I see
https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/23688
In reply to @bobjp > and incorrect… by mercuree
So is mine.
In reply to @bobjp > But...In the first… by mercuree
@mercuree wrote > *Developers usually write back that they need step-by-step reproduction ... Perhaps developers ... the developers could add the ability to save the undo stack. For example, there is such an option in Cockos Reaper DAW.
Brilliant!
I'd never thought of corruption/crash/glitch forensics via an undo stack.
I had my first MS4.4.4 score corruption yesterday. It happened shortly after I had made a successful Save.
As I attempted my next Save—MS4.4.4 warned me of the corruption— and I had probably made less than twenty additional steps. A preserved undo stack would list those steps, and anyone examining the stack would likely be able reproduce the corruption based on the "steps to replicate" captured in Undo amber.
Always appreciate your thoughtfulness.
In reply to Sorry, but can someone… by bobjp
There are more ways to accomplish it I guess, but you can easily experience it by inserting notes with e.g. Ctrl + Shift + C.
You'll be able to place more notes in the measure than actually belong there according to time signature. Check out the sole and only score on my account, if you want to see an example of me exploring this bug.