MS3: Saving existing lute tablature as preset in the Instruments panel
Is there an easy way to save an existing lute tablature, with its many settings, as an instrument that I can reuse from the Instruments panel in Musescore 3? The information I'm seeing online talks about saving as a template (an entire score with an instrument I already created hard-baked into it), which is not what I need, or as editing a text-XML file, which is way above my pay grade. My process to date has been to toggle back and forth between a new staff and the staff properties for the tablature staff I'd already created and manually copying everything from the source to its destination. All help would be much appreciated! Thanks.
Comments
Save it as a template, i.e. as a regular score but in the templates directory
The "entire score" can be one measure long and the "template" is what appears in the New Scores dialog. Based on your description, this is precisely what you need.
In reply to The "entire score" can be… by TheHutch
Thanks for writing back so quickly. Will I be able to insert this score into a preexisting score? I already have the music I need in an existing staff-notation score. Now I need to insert a baroque lute tablature staff into it.
In reply to Thanks for writing back so… by RickyChitarrone
On your keyboard press letter “I” to bring up the instruments dialogue box . Then select one or more instruments in the left column, and click Add to score in the middle of the window, or Double-click an instrument in the left column.
The instrument names, and their associated staff lines, now appear in the list of instruments in the right column.
In reply to Thanks for writing back so… by RickyChitarrone
You cannot apply this template to an existing score.
But you can add a linked tab system to your lute, which I assume has normal notes.
In reply to You cannot apply this… by HildeK
I think I am not explaining myself in an understandable way. I understand all of your suggestions, I think. I want to be able to save the lute tablature staff for which I have created custom staff properties (number of strings, tuning of strings, fonts, spacing, etc.) as an instrument that will permanently appear in the left column of the Instruments dialog (Mac ctl + I) as a choice I can reuse whenever I want. Currently I need to insert the generic "lute tablature" from the list, change its tuning, add strings, reset its font, etc., etc.. Is that clearer?
In reply to I think I am not explaining… by RickyChitarrone
You can have an additional instruments.xml
In reply to You can have an additional… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks, Jojo. What does that mean, "additional instrument .xml" ? I've seen mention of this before but haven't understood it. It involves editing code or some such thing in a plain text editor or some such? Where do the instrument definitions live?
In reply to What does that mean? by RickyChitarrone
The xml file is in one of the program's folders, 'instruments', and can be modified (but not before making a backup copy) with any text editor. Try searching for 'tab6StrFrench' and you will see all the instruments you are interested in grouped together (lute, archlute, theorbo, etc.). You can modify several things, but not the advanced style properties, as long as you are familiar with the xml language. There is no way to make changes directly with the program, and in my opinion creating a template (as I did) remains the best solution, then you decide...
In reply to The xml file is in one of… by ILPEPITO
Hi Pepito. "Template", which is score of sorts, keeps coming up. If I create a template with one tablature voice in it, how do I add a second tablature staff of the same format to it?
The fact that I can't tweak any of the advanced style properties would defeat the purpose of going the xml route, since it's the time I have to invest in adjusting the note and rhythm values that seems so inefficient to begin with.
In reply to Hi Pepito. "Template", which… by RickyChitarrone
Sometimes, there are no ideal solutions, only solutions that save a little time... if you work with duets or trios create a template with 3/4 tablatures, so you will only get bored once... or complain to the Musescore developers :).
In reply to Hi Pepito. "Template", which… by RickyChitarrone
@RickyChitarrone
Glad to cross paths again!
Your request makes perfect sense to me ... and I think you expressed it succinctly in your initial post.
Templates are a great method for duplicating a score as a whole, and indeed the conversation veered in support of that.
But you've clearly stated that you want to be able to add a specific lute or archlute Staff/instrument to an existing score ... at any time, any place. In other words, you need a way to be able to "save" an Instrument and have it appear in the Instrument dialog (accessed via Control/Command i)
The XML route is reasonable—and I'll try that out myself—but as Pepito mentioned the XML definition can't include your advanced style properties. I'll assume that's true, which would be a sad limitation.
We'd not be stuck on this point:
a) if MuseScore could save "Property sets" for a Staff/Part ... where a Property Set is a collection of properties that can be applied to any staff.
— or —
b) if MuseScore could include advanced properties in the XML instrument definition.
AND it would be great if MuseScore would write additional instruments/Properties directly to the Instruments XML file. That would remove the hand-editing burden from the user; just takes one typo, and if you can't spot it, you might have to restore the original XML file and start over! And I don't know if MuseScore has a reasonable response to a malformed XML file, or if it simply amends.
I think these are very worthwhile feature requests. Glad to advance them myself, unless you'd rather do so in context with your specific needs.
scorster
In reply to @RickyChitarrone Glad to… by scorster
Howdie there, Scorester! I've given up on MS4 and will stick with Evolution 3.x until the newer iterations stop being stupid. It was MS4 that corrupted a lot of my work too. So much of what is easy in MS3 is really cumbersome in MS4. Further, the very notion that an end user should need to twiddle with an XML file directly is ludicrous. We might as well stop using a graphic user interface while we're at it and go back to coding. I do appreciate that this is a volunteer operation, so I'm not exactly complaining. The developers have their priorities. Besides, I only use MS for tablature because Sibelius, which I use for most of my notation work, is hopeless at lute tablature. And it was great to hear from you!
In reply to Howdie there, Scorester! I… by RickyChitarrone
> RickyChitarrone wrote > I've given up on MS4 and will stick with Evolution 3.x until the newer iterations stop being stupid. So much of what is easy in MS3 is really cumbersome.
I too rely on MS Evolution 3.7 for production and find MS4 to be an untenable workspace:
a) For my workflows and purposes the rewards of MS4's UI and new features are slim. And it's not because I can't adapt or learn new systems. I started with MS3.6 about four years ago and was up to speed in about two weeks. But with each try with MS4 inevitably I feel like I've stepped in something sticky. For instance, various depths of the UI were previously nicely exposed, but now navigating to them is trying, distracting and disappointing compared to what we had; and the real pain point is having them constantly slam shut.
b) Many MS4 features (both new and reinvented) are not fully fledged. This includes audio playback, which is often so glitchful, irrratic and unrealistic I find listening quite annoying, and reason enough to stick with MS3.
c) the amount of regressions—particularly features completely ditched for the time being—suggests that feature rollout and deprecation would have been better staged.
> RickyChitarrone wrote > the very notion that an end user should need to twiddle with an XML file directly is ludicrous. We might as well stop using a graphic user interface ...
Indeed, history has shown that much can be accomplished with a candle, parchment, quill and ink. All we need is a monk who knows XML and MuseScore's file structure!
In many posts I've not been shy in voicing MS4 criticism, so I also want to reiterate that I am truly and deeply grateful to past and present developers. Nevertheless, if they don't know our preferences and dissatisfactions, the inclination to adjust the rudder may not occur. All in the spirit of betterment, with some exasperation along the way.
I'll be interested to see where the pending MS 4.5 leaves us.
In reply to I've given up on MS4 and… by scorster
What most frustrated me about MS4 is how much less accessible everything is. The corruption of my tablature files (because they lacked a clef) was simply a bug that my work uncovered. I like MS3 because it's super straightforward. But MS4 was so different, it required new learning, but without a payoff for the effort. The scores look just as clunky as ever. (And, speaking of ever, why on earth the Edwin font?). There's a real disconnect between what developers think will be cool and the people who use their software to do their jobs.
I'm clearly in a crabby state about all of this. It's okay though. And thanks for your kind suggestions, scorster!
In reply to Howdie there, Scorester! I… by RickyChitarrone
Midway in the link yonah_ag posted I note the following:
Copy and paste method:
Instrument's notation setting edited and sound assigned in Mixer inside Musescore are not automatically save back to instruments.xml, but they are saved in the score file. Open it as plaintext to copy and paste to create your custom instruments.xml.
I think this means, starting with a score where you have defined the Staff/Part properties:
• Save your score as mscx (uncompressed MuseScore format) [this step not mentioned initially]
• Open the mscx score as plaintext in a text editor.
• Locate the xml segment that describes your instrument.
• Copy
• Then according to the insturctions, ”paste to create your custom instruments.xml.”
I'm guessing that the final instruction means:
• Close musescore as a precautionary step. [Not mentioned]
• After making a backup of the Instruments.xml file, open the original in a plaintext editor
• Paste the xml (that's on your clipboard) to an appropriate place in the Instruments.xml file
• Save the the Instruments.xml file
• Cross your fingers and reopen MuseScore.
I can test these steps if you want to post an example score that contains one of your instruments defined ... or you can PM it to me.
Granted that won’t afford a complete solution for you, but it’s a step I’m interested in knowing about and further documenting.
scorster
In reply to Midway in the link yonah_ag… by scorster
The conventions of the mscx file format and the instrument.xml file are different, so I don't think it can work the way you suggest. The idea is not to be discarded, however: once the instrument is prepared in the desired way, it can be saved with the score in mscx format: at this point it can be copied and pasted into other files saved as mscx and then converted back to mscz. I don't know how practical this system is for many users, but it certainly works (as long as one knows what one is doing). A clarification: in the 'Early Music' section with these instruments, the only one with tablature is the lute: nothing prevents, once the instrument is loaded, from replacing it with another of the same family without losing the tablature setting.
In reply to The conventions of the mscx… by ILPEPITO
@ILPEPITO Thanks for your continuing input here.
So it seems I misinterpreted the How-to instructions.
If I'm following correctly now:
• the copy occurs in an mscx file that has the defined instrument
• the paste occurs in an mscx version of a score where you want to add the instrument
I think we're in agreement that this is complicated, tedious, incomplete and error prone workaround. And it's more than should be expected from an user who just wants to "save" a Instrument so that, going forward, they can access it from the Instruments dialog.
Sadly then, I think the smartest thing is to make an official Github request, as I suggested earlier. I'll wait to see if anyone wants to do so.
In reply to @ILPEPITO Thanks for your… by scorster
Correct. For what it's worth, before posting the previous comment I tried the procedure and I can assure you that it takes a few minutes and that it works perfectly: however without the ability to quickly grasp how the mscx file works it is likely that you will only cause disasters. Better to try to request a modification to the program.
In reply to Correct. For what it's worth… by ILPEPITO
You can explore the MSCX file format with this plugout:
https://github.com/yonah-ag/musescore-mscx-explorer
In reply to What does that mean? by RickyChitarrone
If you still want to have a go with instruments.xml then you may find these posts useful:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/developers-handbook/references/instru…
https://musescore.org/en/node/15803
!! Backup your original instruments.xml !! Although the above posts indicate that you can choose a different folder for the new version, it is always better to be safe than sorry.
In reply to If you still want to have a… by yonah_ag
Thanks all. I am glad to have generated so much conversation, but the truth of the matter is that I am not willing to invest that much effort. What you describe in text editing is already leagues beyond the ambitions of someone who welcomed the advent of the graphic user interface over the likes of MS-DOS. I have taken screenshots of my settings and will simply go forward with those. They take a couple of minutes and don't cause anything to fail. Fussing around in text editor can also take a couple of minute, but it's above my paygrade and above my threshold of ambition.
In reply to Thanks all. I am glad to… by RickyChitarrone
If you can upload a couple of scores, I'll see if a plugin would be easy:
Score 1: 1 measure, 2 identical, independent guitar staves, (not linked)
Score 2: 1 measure, 1 guitar stave as above + 1 lute tab with all the changed settings.