Save keystrokes on dotted quaver sequences
A pattern of dotted quaver followed by a semiquaver, repeating, is common on traditional and other music. Entering via the keyboard requires many keystrokes. It would be handy if I could just enter a long series of quavers then select them and in a single click make them dotted-quaver/semiquaver pairs (or vice versa for Scotch Snap).
Comments
If it really is a whole series; enter them once, then use 'R' to replicate the rhythm. Finally use repitch mode to correct the pitches.
Alternatively, do start with quavers, then go the first one. Press "dot, right, right" repeatedly.
In reply to If it really is a whole… by jeetee
Playing around, I see there is a way you can do a bit of it. Write it all as quavers, then run back through and make every first note dotted - obligingly MuseScore makes the following note a semiquaver! Doesn't work for Scotch Snap, though. Make the first quaver a semiquaver and MuseScore will insert a following rest.
I've tried displacing the rhythm one quaver to the right and dotting the imaginary first quaver, hoping I could then delete it and be left with the correct result. No luck.
In reply to Playing around, I see there… by Dougie
If you want the rhythm with different notes, you can use one of jeetee's methods like entering the notes once, then use R to repeat the rhythm as many times as you want it, then change to re-pitch mode (click the fancy N under the new scores button) and enter the notes you want.
Another way is to add a system note, say, next to the tempo marker at the beginning that indicates the rhythm. eg two quavers = a crotchet and a quaver in triplet form to achieve a swing rhythm. But I don't know how to do that in music notation as a system note. And ideas?
In reply to Another way is to add a… by Subtlevox
What you are describing sound like a swing indicator. There are two problems using this. First, I have never seen this indicated with quarter notes. Second is that this would be applied to all quarter notes in the song. While the OP didn't mention this is only for a few measures, I suspect this is only a section of music where an instrument plays this rhythm rather than the entire song being written in this rhythm. I would be surprised if there are no straight quarter notes being played at the same time.
FWIW, I'd like to consider this from another angle: how could we make dotted rhythms easier to enter, in a way that feels natural (i.e., without re-inventing the whole note input system)?
I can see a way forward where we introduce two new commands. The shortcuts could be anything, but I'll use keystrokes "]" and "/" for now to illustrate.
The "]" command would add a dot to the most recently entered note and would also halve the duration for the next note. So, after entering a quaver (eighth note), hitting "]" would add a dot but change the duration for the next note to semiquaver (sixteenth). The "/" command would simply double the duration for the next note. So, after entering the semiquaver (sixteenth), hitting "/" would set the duration for the next note back to quaver (eighth).
With this in place, you could enter a whole sequence dotted rhythms as follows:
C ] D \ E ] F \ G ] A \ B ] C \
Now, as I think this through, I'm struck by how much of this already exists. For one thing, we already have the equivalent of the "\" command to double duration for the next note. It is called "Increase active duration", and there is no shortcut by default, but you can define one in Edit / Preferences / Shortcuts. Also, we have the existing "Increase duration dotted" command with a shortcut Shift+W, and a "Decrease active duration" that if *combined" with Shift+W, would be the equivalent of the "]" command I described above.
So, check this out:
1) Go to Edit / Preferences / Shortcuts
2) Define "[" as an alternate shortcut for "Increase duration dotted"
3) Define "]" as shortcut for "Decrease active duration"
4) Define "\" as shortcut for "Increase active duration
The pair "[ ]" now does what we need - it adds a dot to the current note, and halves the active duration in preparation for the next note. Meaning, you can enter your dotted sequence almost as easily as what I proposed above:
C [ ] D \ E [ ] F \ G [ ] A \ B [ ] C \
This is pretty cool already, I think. I just wonder if it wouldn't make sense to change the behavior of the existing "Increase duration dotted" command to also do a "Decrease active duration". Probably it breaks some other use case. But perhaps a new "Create dotted rhythm" command could be created that did exactly that. It could even also be made to work on a selection as originally proposed.
In reply to FWIW, I'd like to consider… by Marc Sabatella
I use the "Increase duration dotted" command often when I realize I missed the dot on a note. Sometimes the dot can't be seen on scanned scores sometimes I just miss them. The one case I can think of where your suggestion that this also "Decrease active duration" will cause a problem is when there is a series of dotted notes, as happens in x/8 time quite often.
The old Q and W shortcuts (prior to 2.1) ignored the dots and doubled or halved the base note. This, in my opinion was flawed, but I'm not sure reintroduction of this is the best answer. Your solution actually saves no key strokes. Currently these are entered
4 C 5 . D 4 E 5 . F 4 G 5 . A 4 B 5 . C 4
The process is easier for me since I can keep my right hand on the numeric keypad and my left on the notes.
In reply to I use the "Increase duration… by mike320
Indeed, I realize my suggestion doesn't currently reduce number of keystrokes, however, it does have a few advantages:
1) it's the same sequence regardless of base duration(eg, dotted eighth / sixteenth vs. dotted quarter / eighth)
2) the three keys I mentioned are adjacent and make quick work if you don't have a numeric keyboard
3) with a change to the behavior of the "Increase duration dotted command", or introduction of a new one, we can reduce keystrokes
Good point about compound meter being a use case against changing the behavior of Shift+W, although I would not if you enter the dotted note "normally" (enter dot as part of duration before entering note), this isn't an issue. So I'd personally be willing to live with that tradeoff.
In reply to Indeed, I realize my… by Marc Sabatella
I think the best way of tackling this is to add an option which could be selected that automatically changes the note value to eg. a 16th note every time a dotted 8th note was entered. (I do realise this will introduce other cases where this will be unexpected behaviour, causing confusion.) For my workflow, this would work perfect. I almost always need a 8th note after a dotted quarter note and a 16th note after a dotted 8th, regardless of whether it is compound or simple meter.
For the inverse case (short-long), I don't think it would be as simple. In more modern styles, syncopation also comes into play much more regularly, messing everything up.
In reply to I think the best way of… by Louis Cloete
Are you thinking something like having the user enter straight notes, select the section of music, and the section gets changed to dotted notes followed by 1/2 length notes. So straight quarters become dotted quarters followed by eighth, eights become dotted eighths followed by sixteenth and so on. Maybe it would just ignore any notes that aren't successive notes of the same length. so
q q q q e s s q q
would become
q. e q. e e s. t q. e
(q = 1/4, e = 1/8, s = 1/16)...
The user would need to be careful not to accidentally include the sixteenth notes in my example and be unhappy with the results. Also, the programmer would need to ensure it could be undone with one keystroke unlike what happened with regroup rhythms which is impossible to undo.
In reply to Are you thinking something… by mike320
No, I mean when you enter a dotted note (e.g. press "N", press "5", press "." and press a key to enter a note), I want an option automatically "pressing" the "4" key immediately after the dotted note was entered, just once for each dotted note entered. I.e. I want an option that, when enabled, automatically selects the note value half the value of the dotted note minus its dot before I enter the next note.
PS -- I am struggling to explain this one. Ask again if I should try again.
In reply to No, I mean when you enter a… by Louis Cloete
So maybe a special input mode that allows you to enter
5.ab and get a dotted 1/4 a followed by an 8th b? Or possibly even simpler (more simple?) enter
/5ab/5ab for the same results as the previous example
/ (which is on the number pad) would say the next two notes will be a dotted followed by 1/2 the duration of the base note. So the 5 could be replaced by any duration and get the dotted followed by 1/2 duration.
In reply to So maybe a special input… by mike320
Exactly!
In reply to No, I mean when you enter a… by Louis Cloete
This is what I meant about not wanting to reinvent the note input system. Now you're asking for an entirely new mode, in which the same commands (eg, entering a note) does different things depending on mode. It's not impossible, but not ideal either.
In reply to This is what I meant about… by Marc Sabatella
I'm not advocating or in favor of making any changes to the current note entry for standard notes (that is not tuplets). While the rhythms do occur frequently, I don't know that this justifies a special input mode. Copying and the re-pitch mode in my opinion are sufficient for those occasions where there are large numbers of these consecutive rhythms. For the sporadic occurrence of these rhythms I don't see how 2 more key strokes is going to make the project be extended an unreasonable amount.
A macro creator would be a better option that would allow the user to define his own shortcuts and would include the ability to create one such as I previously suggested. It could also be used to simulate a customized insert command which is so often requested.
In reply to This is what I meant about… by Marc Sabatella
I'm not disagreeing, just thinking further: I understand your concern, but IMHO an input mode like this could be implemented sometime in future. It would be something like predictive typing or autocorrect in a word processor. (And yes, I know those things can actually waste your time and do all kinds of unexpected stuff, but a good implementation saves time more often than not.) But... MuseScore should rather be improved in a lot of other areas before this could get time and attention. It could even be a project for a future GSOC.
TD;LR I agree don't waste time on it now, but don't throw it out of the window either.
In reply to I'm not disagreeing, just… by Louis Cloete
Agreed :-)
In reply to FWIW, I'd like to consider… by Marc Sabatella
Excellent suggestion Marc, I like it
In reply to Excellent suggestion Marc, I… by frfancha
As I started this thread, I'll permit myself a final (well, final from me) comment. I wasn't thinking of an entirely new method of note entry, just an edit feature (plugin?) that changes a selected sequence of quavers to dotted quavers alternating with semiquavers. I don't like the sound of re-pitching but that's probably because I've never tried it - I'll make amends ASAP.
In reply to As I started this thread, I… by Dougie
Don't get me wrong, I do like the idea of a tool that can go through and change existing rhythms globally. As I mentioned, I see that as being somehow connected to the idea of doubling/halving of note values, and would like to see development in that direction someday. But I also would like to see it be easier to enter dotted rhythms in the first place rather than require a two-step process, especially given that in many cases it isn't an all-or-nothing thing.