Odd Violin Portion in Piece for 2 Pianos
I was transcribing Rachmaninov's Piano Concerto No. 2 for 2 pianos, and there appears to be a random insertion of some violin into the piece (only happens once more right towards the end of the 3rd movement):
Now, I'm entirely unfamiliar with the "u. s. w." at the end. Is the violin portion just for reference, or is it actually intended for someone to play that bit in violin for a concerto reduction that's otherwise entirely for 2 pianos?
Comments
From https://www.orchestralibrary.com/reftables/ggloss.html
und so weiter (usw.)
and so forth, etc.
I'm not sure why the violin part appears sporadically, but I'm not familiar with this piece. One thing I do notice is that the tirads on the violin mostly match the first pianos down beats, with most inversions being undone. This would help clarify the meaning of the etc. at the end of the part.
In reply to From https://www… by mike320
Well, it's just the strings portion from the original orchestra. I'm just wondering what it's doing in a reduction of a concerto for just 2 pianos.
In reply to Well, it's just the strings… by LuuBluum
Given that other versions of the same thing lack the violin portion, I'm axing it entirely.
In reply to Given that other versions of… by LuuBluum
The only reason I could imagine it being included is to act as an ossia for the right hand in the second piano. In this case I would agree that ignoring it would be harmless. The only reason I would consider keeping it is if someone finds a version including Rachmaninov where this ossia is played.
In reply to The only reason I could… by mike320
I was thinking the same thing. If that is in fact 8 bars before [7]
(strings pp, brass mf)it may be the pianist could play the triplet pattern with the
Eflat and Bflat in bass sustained. The orchestral score shows bassi and 'celli unison on the Eflat BUT tuba and bs trbn playing the open fifth, as in the piano score, which increases my suspicion that Mike is correct....
...though the pattern repeats and dissolves in the next four bars...why does "ossia" not continue for that length?
But why else would it be there?
In reply to I was thinking the same… by penne vodka
It is ended with u.s.w. which directs the pianist with the previous pattern as I explained above.
In reply to It is ended with u.s.w… by mike320
Yes. I understood that. But how would he know what to play? Those triplets are VLN1+2+Vla. It stops with u.s.w. Unless you mean s/he continues the patterns based on his sight reading of the harmonic arrangement in the 1st piano part, I suppose.
In reply to Yes. I understood that. But… by penne vodka
...or the assumption of familiarity with the orchestral score. I haven't looked at the source, so I don't know if piano 2 continues with the long notes for an extended time or if it changes to a shorter rhythm after a reasonable number of measures, at which time the u.s.w would obviously cease to apply.
In reply to Yes. I understood that. But… by penne vodka
The violin portion is a consolidation of all 3 string portions from the orchestral score, so I imagine it would, as mike said, require familiarity with the orchestral score.
In reply to The violin portion is a… by LuuBluum
Yes, I agree. The 1st and 2nd vlns and vle. The problem which remains is that we could not satisfactorily address your concern, though you did say you'd ax it. There is a recording on IMSLP of the 2 piano version and I listened for that part to see what 2nd piano was playing, but the sound was poor and I could not tell.
In reply to I was thinking the same… by penne vodka
To note, was looking through the piano reduction of his third piano concerto, and found similarly a brief portion for flute (and another one later for violin).
I think Rachmaninov just didn't grasp the idea of a "reduction for 2 pianos". 2 pianos. Not 2 pianos and maybe a flute oh and a violin would be nice here as well.
In reply to The only reason I could… by mike320
Well, the violin portion I thought I found in the third movement turned out to be a flute, and seems to persist across multiple editions of the piece. Similarly to the violin portion, it's a merging of the entire flute/clarinet section into a single staff.
Unfortunately I can't actually find any recordings of the third movement (unlike the first, which I can confirm lacked the violin portion), so... looks like I'll be adding a flute section once I get to the third movement.
In reply to Well, the violin portion I… by LuuBluum
here is a performance on you tube of the third mvmt here:
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=rachmaninoff+third+piano+concerto&…
with a 2 piano score. I see what you've mention at 7 bars before [42], 5 after [52] and at [58]. The one at 5 after [52] is marked as an ossia
This time I saw an etc instead of a u.s.w English speaking transciption I guess.
As before, I can't figure it out for certain, but it was worthwhile to hear a little Rachmaninov. I'm glad your not working on Heinrich Schutz. :-)
Somebody can explain me, the 4 dotted quater notes in a 4/4 measure for the violon ?
In reply to Somebody can explain me, the… by Raymond Wicquart
There's a little 3 on top of them and a tremolo through the stem.
Shorthand for triplets of the same chord.