Design for listing of preset page sizes (pagesettings.ui)

• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:08

The list of page sizes in 3.0 has over 100 items. That is too long for one drop-down list. I have a pending PR that changes this design, but I want to get additional feedback before it is merged into the 3.1 beta.
Here are the 4 options I know of (please add another if you have one that you feel is better):

1) Revert to the 2.3 list of page sizes. Any other sizes must be created as Custom sizes by the user.

2) Create a short list of popular page sizes. Create a checkbox "List All Page Sizes" that switches to the complete list of 100+ sizes.

3) Use QCompleter instead of a drop-down list. See here for how QCompleter works. It's commonly used for filesystem navigation:
https://doc.qt.io/qt-5/qtwidgets-tools-completer-example.html

4) Divide the list into 3 groups by type: Metric, Imperial, and Other. Use 2 drop-down lists: Page Size Type (Metric, Imperial, Other) and Page Size. The Page Size list will contain only the subset of sizes for the selected type. Here is a screenshot:
pageSizeByType.png
See the last page of this PDF doc for the lists of page sizes by type: MS_PageSettings.pdf

I'd be glad to answer any questions or post more screenshots if that helps people decide. Thanks!
If you're a developer, you can see option 4) in action by building this branch:
https://github.com/sidewayss/MuseScore/tree/PageSettings

Comments

• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:17

I like option 4. Also preselect metric / imperial based in language settings or printer default (so it defaults to metric/A4 for me and imperial/letter for others?)

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:20

The presetting by locale is in my PR, of course! :)
Actually it's done this way: It presets units (millimeters or inches) and default page size (A4 or Letter) based on locale. Then the page settings dialog pre-selects the page size and page size type based on the current score's page size - the two drop-downs must be in sync and reflect the current score.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:23

I'm not sure how that would work without getting overly complex. I think I know what you mean, but it adds complexity instead of reducing it. The only thing I can think of to "combine 2 and 4" would be to add a 4th page type "Common" or "Popular", that mixes standard Metric and Imperial page sizes. Are there users that switch between Metric and Imperial?

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:34

So you like having a list of "Common" or "Popular" or maybe "Standard" page sizes as a category or type? Which of the 4 options do you prefer? Or do you have questions about them?

When you switch between Letter and A3, do you want the units to switch from Inches to Millimeters?

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:44

I would prefer 2 or 4. Both would make it easy to select the common page sizes I (and most people) use. I always work in mm for scaling because that's what I'm used to. I feel I get a finer adjustment capability with mm over inches, but that may only be because I adjust the A3 size more.

I'm assuming the list will be similar to the current list with the most common sizes listed first then less common sizes after that.

Trying to combine the two options would be too much I think.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:50

Mike - open the link to the PDF in the original post and go to the last page. The page sizes are listed in that order, which is the most common order to use (Qt already sets a pretty reasonable order).
That's great that you don't expect the page size to determine the units. That would get ugly :)
But there is an option to set units by score, so you can switch units in the page settings dialog, the way you do today in 3.0 and 2.3.

So if you have to vote for only 1 choice, is it 2) or 4)? You can also vote for 4) with an additional "Standard" set of sizes that cross metric/imperial categories.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 17:01

I have to switch units already so that's not a big deal, I can just keep doing what I do. If I have to pick 1 choice I would pick 2 since it's the simplest and I think simpler is better in general.

As for frfancha's comment, any additional dropdowns or other options by their very nature make it more complex for both the user and the programmer. The programmer might not mind writing the code, but the average user just wants to pick a paper size and go.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 17:08

OK. Thanks for your vote. Does adding a Common page size type, and defaulting to that Common type whenever one of the Common page sizes is set for a score, mitigate the complexity of 4)?
If you default to the Common list, users never have to touch the page size type drop-down. They'll leave it on Common forever. We can expand the list from 2.3 to be as many as 10-20 page sizes. If you want uncommon page sizes, you go to Custom or you pick a different page size type.
How does that sound?
My issue with 2) is that the list of all page sizes is very unruly, and it even scrolls in an awkward way if it doesn't fit vertically on your screen.
But I'll count your vote for 2) "as is", if you decline this "settlement offer" for number 4) :-)

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 17:24

I think adding a common page size type would be fine. If the dialog remembers the users choice that would be ideal, then it decreases the complexity of the options for the user because they don't have to select every option every time if they don't like any of the defaults. So you can put my vote for number 4 in this case. I do like the idea of fewer paper sizes per list.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 17:33

It's not a matter of the dialog remembering the user choice, it's about new scores inheriting default values that are set by locale (your country of residence) or by user preference/style. The page settings dialog reflects the settings of the current score. The PR that includes this user interface change also includes better defaulting, by locale, etc. The effect you desire, of the dialog selecting the most appropriate options, is implemented, just not the way you describe it.
In the case of the selection of Common, it would have priority over Metric and Imperial (I don't think any of the common sizes will come from the Other list). So, in general, the dialog will be pre-selecting Common as the page size type.
I hope that's not a confusing explanation. Once this UI issue is decided, and the 3.1 beta is available, you'll be able to experience it first hand and provide more feedback if you desire.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:50

Mixing 2 and 4 wouldn't be complex at all.
Just implement option 4.
And on the top of the dialog box, add a radio button "most frequent" / "list all"
Set on "most frequent" by defaut unless the current size is not in the most frequent limited list.
When set on "most frequent", the list of the dialog box (imperial, metrics,...) would contain at most 5 to 10 options.
When set on "list all" they would be complete.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 16:56

That is by it's nature more complex: an additional control on the dialog.
I think that adding a "Common" list that mimics the 2.3 list, maybe adds a few items, is a cleaner way to implement it. You achieve the same result with one less control.
The one thing to note is that it would pick Common first, before Metric or Imperial. But that is not a bad thing. The Common list would duplicate Metric and Imperial list items.
Based on the votes for both 2) and 4) so far, that seems like the new 4): with a 4th page size type "Common" or whatever you want to call it (I like "Standard", but MuseScore uses "Common" in the instrument types list, so I'm assuming that's better).

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 17:46

So what gets into the Common list of page sizes? The list of page sizes in 2.3 is quite long, and even scrolls. Here is my barebones list, from my understanding of what's in common use. A4, B5, Letter, and Legal are the four most popular, no doubt. Please comment with additions (or subtractions). Let's define the list first, then decide the order.
A3
A4
A5
B5
Letter
Legal
Tabloid
Ledger (aka Ansi B - same as Tabloid in landscape)
Executive

The only other one that I thought of adding was Folio, because it's in 2.3. But I've never heard of anyone using that size.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 18:42

There is Imperial10x13 and Imperial10x14. I didn't know that either were commonly used. But I have no familiarity with anything but the most basic paper sizes. I only added A3 because you use it, and it's close to A4, so that makes sense. A5 was a guess along those lines.
I'm going to create a version of this list for the PR now, but it will be easy to modify during the beta, as feedback arises from actual use. Even after the release, it will be an easy thing to modify the list, if so desired.

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• Mar 31, 2019 - 21:30

I have updated the PR's code and the Common list of paper sizes currently looks like this:
Screenshot from 2019-03-31 14-47-39.png
It was a small coding hassle to control the sort order of this Common list, but it's working well.

You might ask "Why Ledger and Tabloid both?" Because otherwise it's clumsy when switching between Portrait and Landscape for either size.

I am dropping Executive from the list. Qt puts it high on their list of paper sizes, but I don't think it applies to sheet music.

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