Errors of editing the properties of a non-standard staff
What does it mean ?! How to solve this problem?
Please see this video https://youtu.be/ug0YL7ZM8M4
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| staff_props.mscz | 5.79 KB |
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Comments
I can't tell from the video or from your score what you are trying to do or what you expect to see happen. Can you describe the problem you are perceiving in more detail?
In reply to I can't tell from the video… by Marc Sabatella
Hm.. it's strange.
1. I change in staff properties pitch range, I expect red notes to turn black, no more, but look carefully on video what is happening.
2. I change few letters in staff name property. I expect to see changed name, no more, but look carefully on video what is happening.
I specifically have made the video to avoid confusion in the verbal description.
In reply to Hm.. it's strange. 1. I… by straannick
I see, when you change certain properties, the clef changes back to the default for the staff. That does seem like a bug. This can happen in certain cases where initial clef is not the default for the instrument. But you can change it back.
In reply to I see, when you change… by Marc Sabatella
Of course I can, but this is a bug.
In reply to Of course I can, but this is… by straannick
Agreed, although I am not sure where the definition of that onstrument came from - was it a custom instruments.xml file? If so, the bug could be with that. Because I couldn't reproduce any problem with a score I created myself using a standard instrument with a C clef, like viola. Nor was I able to reproduce the problem starting from a treble clef staff and changing it to a C clef. In both cases, I went to staff properties, changed the line count, hit OK, verified all was well, then went back to Staff Properties, changed the usable pitch range, and hit OK again, and in all cases the clef remained unchanged. Which makes me think the problem has something to do with some particular unusual aspect of your score other than just the number of staff lines.
So can give you give us more information about your score - and exactly how you created it? Did you use a custom instruments.xml, did you change clefs before or after changing line count, etc.
In reply to Agreed, although I am not… by Marc Sabatella
I don't use xml, see my standart insturments.xml. About specific of my scores: these are bell ringing scores, ones I had created the template score for specific belfry (number of staffs = number of bell groups, see example - https://youtu.be/esHFqpu1mRA) and use in Zerberus sfz library with original wav-records of real bells (bells.sfz). Each new score is made on the base of this template.
In reply to I don't use xml, see my… by straannick
In which case, I might guess the problem is with the template What version of MuseScore did you create it with, and can you attach that? The instrument definition in your score did not come from the isntruments.xml file you attached, so presumably it came from the template instead.
In reply to In which case, I might guess… by Marc Sabatella
Here it is. I had created it in 2016
In reply to Here it is. I had created it… by straannick
OK, so that's pretty old, certainly long before 3.0. I'd suggest making a new template in 3.2.3 and using that instead, since as I said this seems to work for me in scores I create from scratch.
In reply to OK, so that's pretty old,… by Marc Sabatella
Hello, Mark! Earlier in the old version of the Musescore I showed errors related to changing the properties of the staff. But you could not reproduce them in the new version of the program. Now I will reduce the problem to one error. For some purposes I sometimes need to hide clefs and then show them again. Take a look at what's going on in the latest version of the program - https://youtu.be/qRNFrM2e8ss .
Here is another behavior of the program when changing the clef display in a bell score that was created a few days ago.
https://youtu.be/ViePuDVzyrY
I cannot repeat it from scratch, but I am attaching the score. When the clef is hidden, the score is distorted - some measures are displayed correctly, some are not. When the clef is shown again it changed to default, but score is also distorted. But, oddly enough, if you return the original clef, the correct display of the score is restored!
I need a non-standard use of clefs to sound the score with natural recordings of bells.
In reply to Hello, Mark! Earlier in the… by straannick
Can you post clear numbered steps for us to follow? Much easier than trying to follow a video. But if you can't reproduce this from scratch, it may be difficult to get much further.
In reply to Can you post clear numbered… by Marc Sabatella
Why not to start with first example? It's simple:
1. create score, select one instrument, set not default clef, type few notes
2. hide clef in staff properties
3. show clef in staff properties
Same with second example, but with test.mscz and without p.1
In reply to Why not to start with first… by straannick
OK, but is that really a problem? If you remove the clef then re-add one, by default the default clef is added, so if you want a non-default clef, just add it normally. I thought you were discussing something that seemed more serious?
In reply to OK, but is that really a… by Marc Sabatella
I don't entirely follow you on this one.
The clefs aren't "removed" from the user pov; only the style option to display them has changed (but they still affect the notated notes!). It would thus be expected that changing that style option again, you'd end up with the identical clefs that were there before; wouldn't it? Rather than ending up with different clefs that change the written notation?
In reply to OK, but is that really a… by Marc Sabatella
Marc, you admitted earlier that this is a mistake and mistakes should be corrected. If you want something a little more serious, take a look at the second example - obviously you didn't.
In reply to Mark, you admitted earlier… by straannick
Please understand I'm juggling a lot of things both here and in life in general. It really helps to have the sample score and precise steps to reproduce all in one place rather than having to try to match things up and figure out what steps to apply to what file. Could you please make this more clear, with a comment containing a sample score and precise steps to reproduce the more serious problem using that score?
Yes, bugs should be fixed, but they also need to be prioritized, and that requires understanding, so the most serious bugs get fixed first.
In reply to Please understand I'm… by Marc Sabatella
Okay, Mark, it's not difficult for me to copy/paste what I wrote earlier.
For test.mscz and second staff
"2. hide clef in staff properties 3. show clef in staff properties"
"When the clef is hidden, the score is distorted - some measures are displayed correctly, some are not. "
What do you not understand? Isn't the partial distortion of the score a serious mistake ?! Why not see in the debugger what is happening in the program at this moment?
But I should add: When you show (default) clef again, some measures will change and some are not - looks strange, isn't it? - but as a result we will get the correct score and you can advice again - "just set сorrect clef manually".
Here is a bit shorter video of the process - https://youtu.be/4NHHKnPgjM8
Regarding the first example - https://youtu.be/qRNFrM2e8ss . Yes, for a score of several measures, it is not a bad advice to manually set the correct clef, and even the advice to completely rewrite the score is not so bad. But what if the score contains many pages and the clefs change frequently ?!
The staff has an attribute - "clef", the instrument has the attribute "default clef". Why not use the first attribute instead of the second when changing the display mode of the staff clef?
It is very strange that we have been discussing this for almost two years.
In reply to Okay, Mark, it's not… by straannick
From scratch, with this test file: test clef.mscz
1 Open attached test file.
Result:
![test0.jpg]( "test0.jpg")
Result:
![test1.jpg]( "test1.jpg")
EDIT: and if, after step #3, you do Undo twice, you receive a crash.
In reply to Okay, Mark, it's not… by straannick
OK, I now see what you mean about some measures displaying correctly and others not. So thanks for presenting all the info in one place to make this more clear. Feel free to submit this as an official bug report to the issue tracker.
But for the record, we weren't having this discussion for almost two years. It started almost two years ago, yes, but it stopped when I pointed out the original problem (not about the show clef property but about the pitch range property) seemed to only apply to scores that were already old even then - there were no steps to provided to reproduce the problem in new scores.
Also, while the incorrect display of the notes is definitely a serious bug (and this is the part that was hard to recognize without the score and steps together), the fact that the initial clef itself reverts to default is what I am saying is not. This result should really be expected because the initial clef is not a persistent attribute of a staff at all the way "default clef" is. It's just an element on the staff to be added or removed like any other - notes, text, etc. So once removed, it's really just gone - there isn't anything there anymore to retrieve should you then decide you want to have clefs after all. Internally, some of that information might still be around briefly, but it's not anything that is a permanent part of your score anymore. Somehow, that information kept around briefly is probably responsible for the other more serious erroneous behaviors here, though.
In reply to OK, I now see what you mean… by Marc Sabatella
For the record, this is a very former issue (it's even surprising that it hasn't been noticed before, unless I missed something). Anyway, I see the same behavior with the very first version 3.0.0 but not with 2.3.2 (and without crash after Undo twice)