Is there some plan to make single note dynamics compatible with other soundfonts?
Hi, gang!!!
As we know, we can use so fine the single note dynamics in our scores BUT... Only with the included MuseScore soundfont... Only!!!
This characteristic IS NOT compatible with any other soundfont we would want to use, because...
I insist that something is missed and/or wrong inside the MuseScore synthesizer part, which is making a not compatible MIDI language communication with other soundfonts, in this "single dynamics" issue.
So... My question is simple:
Is there some plan to make single note dynamics full compatible with other soundfonts, whatever we want to use?
Also, it is full related with external MIDI devices: the today single note dynamics DOESN'T work with those external devices.
So...
Blessings and Greetings from Chile!!!
JUAN
Comments
It's not true that it is only compatible with other soundfonts. I'm not too sure of the details, but it shold work with any soundfont capable of responding to the appropriate controller, and you can customize this in View / Synthesizer / Dynamics. If you search the forums, you'll find discussion of this, hopefully enough for you to figure out how to make it work with your particular favorite. If not, say which soundfont you are having trouble with and maybe someone else knows something about which controllers it supports or how to edit the soundfont to make it work.
In reply to It's not true that it is… by Marc Sabatella
Hi, Marc!!!
I had tested with 3 different soundfonts:
1) GeneralUser GS v1.471.sf2
2) Timbres of Heaven GM_GS_XG_SFX V 3.4 Final.sf2
3) 32MbGMStereo.sf2
I had used all the possible combinations in the Synthesizer Dynamics Tab and... NOTHING!!!
The dynamics is full noticeable from some note to another, not INSIDE just one note.
I understand the point about to search help into the forums about the appropiated controller to use, BUT...
Isn't supposed that the MIDI language apps should have FULL compatibility with the international MIDI standard about this point?
Why we should change something inside the soundfont files?
Wouldn't be better that MuseScore had a full MIDI compatibility, with any soundfont and/or MIDI device? ???
Just some questions...
In reply to Hi, Marc!!! I had tested… by jotape1960
There is no standard MIDI way for doing this; but some common ways using CC2/11; both supported by MuseScore.
In reply to There is no standard MIDI… by jeetee
Hi, jeetee!!!
I understand MuseScore can use the MIDI CC2/CC11 parameters to change the single note dynamics with its own soundfont: the MuseScore_General_Full.sf2 file. And, this is working so fine!!!
But... For some mysterious reason, those parameters don't work with any other soundfont file.
In other words, the internal MuseScore synthesizer is using those MIDI CC2/CC11 parameters in a way which is not recognized by the "standard" MIDI way to use it.
If I use another MIDI app (RoseGarden, as an example), with GeneralUser v1.471.sf2 soundfont file (or any other), the "standard" MIDI dynamics changes way work as we expect.
I'm not a programmer, so I cannot to say where and what is exactly the problem, but... It is an issue.
That is what I'm talking about.
In reply to Hi, jeetee!!! I understand… by jotape1960
The CC choice is not just for MuseScore_General soundfonts, it's for all of them.
Again.. there is no standard way to do this in MIDI so each synth uses their own interpretation, some use CC1, some CC2, some CC4, some CC11 and some in an even different way.
MuseScore allows you to choose between the first four of these more common implementations for its synthesizer.
Just for you, I downloaded GeneralUser v1.471.sf2 and added it to MuseScore as the second soundfont next to the default. I created a Violin score which uses SND. When changing the sound in the mixer from
Violin (Expr.)toViolin (1)so it uses the GeneralUser soundfont, indeed SND doesn't work out of the box.But then I simply tel MuseScore to use CC11 instead of CC2 when generating SND and it now works too.
To me this again indicated the error to be not MuseScore, nor the SoundFont, but rather a difference in how SND can be rendered using different synthesizers.
In reply to The CC choice is not just… by jeetee
Hi, jeetee!!!
I've been done the same as you a lot of time, since the Single Note Dynamics was implemented, but...
I don't know if you are using something different I'm using but...
When I use the GeneralUser (or any other) soundfont, there is not any kind of Single Note Dynamics. Not with CC1, not with CC2, not with CC4, not with CC11. Nothing!!!
I'm using this file to test it:
In reply to Hi, jeetee!!! I've been done… by jotape1960
Interesting; performing those same steps on your score indeed doesn't give me SND either.
So I'm curious whether the attached works for you; Don't forget to
Load from Scoreand verify CC11 is selected before playing back the score.In reply to Interesting; performing… by jeetee
to play properly:
Sometimes it works with "CC11 + Default (Single note velocity)" options.
Sometimes it works with "CC11 + CC-only constant-velocity" options.
And sometimes you need to save these settings, close the score and re-open.
Try each one individually.
In reply to to play properly: Sometimes… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi, Ziya!!!
I think the issue is about your point: Save settings to the file, save the file and reopen it.
I did that and now is working!!!
Only a doubt about my original first file (011a - Single Note Dynamics Test): The dynamics change from ppp to fff is not correct, I don't know why. In the other file, the changes are right. So... What did I do wrong?
In reply to Hi, Ziya!!! I think the… by jotape1960
The first file works correctly when we save and open again with CC events only (Constant velocity) and CC11.
Also the second file, with the same settings, gives the desired result.
PS: After re-opening the file, be sure to recall the settings from the Synthesizer.
In reply to to play properly: Sometimes… by Ziya Mete Demircan
I don't know how many times I've said this, but the CC11 method is just not good enough. If you change it to constant velocity, even pianississimo on piano or timpani produces fortississimo timbre but with very quite volume, which is definitely not something you want.
In reply to I don't know how many times… by Howard-C
Because Musescore didn't manage to use it.
See: https://musescore.org/en/node/298350#comment-965851
And it works fine if you know how to use it.
Sometimes it's not enough to turn the score on and off for the settings to work correctly; even Musescore needs to be turned on and off.
Once it starts working correctly, don't change it unless you have to.
In reply to Interesting; performing… by jeetee
Hi, jeetee!!!
That file works so fine with the GeneralUser GS v.1,471.sf2 sounfont file!!!
But... I don't understand which is the trick!!!
Why this file works and the file I made don't? What is the difference???
In reply to Hi, jeetee!!! I've been done… by jotape1960
Hello -
I've been doing these tests and reading all this tech stuff which I barely understand in order to determine if I can get SND - such as a crescendo on a timpani roll - on my soundfont - SymphonicSounds.
I have tried "load to score" ,"save to score" , "set as default" and closing both the score and the app. I also cannot set C11 because the app changes it back to default when I try to load.
It is likely I am screwing up somewhere..
FWIW - If it is any help to you, or me, or anyone, I will report what I heard on your test.
I hear mm 1- 8 oboe barely audible to ppppp
0-16 oboe fine fff to ppp
17-24 oboe ppppp to fff incremental with each measure
25- 32 oboe fff to ppp incremental
timpani 33- 40 fp pp to fff incremental, not linear as I expect it should be
same with 41-48
same with 49-64
With same settings, Jeetee violin example (SND GS) below worked perfectly.
I'm likely to keep fumbling around. :-/ Any help would be appreciated. Thanks for your test.
Joe
In reply to The CC choice is not just… by jeetee
Generally :
The "CC7" controller is designed as a "master volume" controller.
The "CC11" controller is designed as "expression" control.
So with CC7, you give a main volume value at the beginning.
And then you use CC11 where expression is needed.
The settings for how this works are specified in the MIDI specification.
How the software will use this and other controllers is their choice.
from: complete_midi_96-1-3.pdf
In reply to Generally : The "CC7"… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi, Ziya!!!
Now, with MuseScore 3.3.4 AppImage (in Ubuntu Studio 19.10), with the GeneralUser GS v1.471.sf2 and the CC11 + variable CC and velocity, I get full Single Note Dynamics effect very well.
My "translation" of the Beethoven's 6th Symphony, first movement, is a very good sample for this audible effect.
BTW: We have to use the MuseScore Synthesizer commands: "Save to Score" and "Set as default" to be sure the effect will work.
In reply to Hi, Ziya!!! Now, with… by jotape1960
And now you have another soundfont that works with CC2 :)
You can try version 3.1.
it has its own instrument.xml.
Read the description on the site.
https://sites.google.com/view/hed-sounds/aegean-symphonic-orchestra
In reply to And now you have another… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Thank you so much for this data!!!
I'll test it, as soon as I can.
In reply to And now you have another… by Ziya Mete Demircan
Hi, Ziya!!!
I tested the ASO soundfont new version 3.1
It is working so fine about the Single Note Dynamics.
BUT...
My taste only: I don't like some sounds!
Piano... Excuse me but... I don't know a piano with that sound.
Flute and Piccolo have too much "Studio Chorus Effect"
Oboe is too much brilliant (in some passages it sounds almost like a violin).
English Horn is too much dull.
Trumpet... I don't have words to say it is not sounding like a trumpet.
Where are the Saxophones?
There are some percussion instruments missed.
There is not Guitar, Accordion, Bandoneon and Harmonica. All sound like Piano.
I love the Clarinet, Bassoon, Harp and Harpsichord sound.
Well, It is just my taste.
In reply to Hi, Ziya!!! I tested the ASO… by jotape1960
All samples of this soundfont are a mix of Sonatina and VPO (where their instruments are missing).
The page says it's for classical music. I can't support other instruments right now.
The original (Sonatina) samples are not excellent quality either. I tried to do my best by editing (and looping, and tuning) them, but that's the data.
Stereo samples sometimes have a chorus / flange effect. To overcome this problem, I will try to prepare a MONO version of this for the 20th of next month. However, the sound quality will decrease in mono samples (especially string ensembles). My guess is that they may have combined different samples into L / R to improve sound quality.
Try the second piano (and its variations for the Piano). It is also the lite version of the Salamander C5. I left the old piano in its place to avoid compatibility issues.
The problems you mention while playing instruments together are minimal.
When you listen one by one, you may notice the problems of the Sonatina's original samples.
But I think it's good for a free and balanced classical music soundfont.
Test with the attached file.
Test with the attached file. (This is one of my five ASO test files.)
Open the file with Musescore, click the "Load from score" button in the Synthesizer window.
And then listen ... Within the ensemble, the Oboe (and other instruments) will be heard good.