automating drumset changes
I have been riding the drumset box in the mixer in order to switch sets between usually an msc standard set and a non-drumset set. I would like to automate this so I don't have to ride the mouse enabling and disabling the drumset box. But I can only make an instrument change ONCE in staff text. So I am forced to use repeats and jumps to move around which is cumbersome. Does anyone know how to switch back and forth between sets using staff text and instrument change?
Comments
I'm not understanding what you mean. I'm having trouble understanding what you are trying to accomplish with the drumset checkbox, and I definitely don't understand what you mean about only being able to change instrument once.
Can you attach a sample score and describe in more detail, like with step by step instructions, what you are trying to do, and what is getting in your way?
In reply to I'm not understanding what… by Marc Sabatella
Normally I can enable and disable the drumset box to get a different set (Boss 550). With instrument change I don't have to do this but can only make ONE change. At "Boss 550" I can switch to a different set but I cannot switch back. So I am forced to use repeats and so forth to return to the original set. "Boss 550" is another set loaded in the synth.
In reply to Normally I can enable and… by ramblinj
Normally I click on and off the drumset box in the mixer to change sets. In this way i can move rapidly in real time when playing back. But it requires keeping my hands on the mouse. With instrument change I can automate it and get the same effect with staff text. My hands are now free to do other things in real time. Its a little like a program or bank change ( between standard and boss 550 in the picture)
BTW, the equivalent in a midi editor would be program changes between 128 and (usually) 000 (piano default) with different sound presets. In my case. both presets are drums. Here is a picture of how the synth is loaded.
In reply to Normally I click on and off… by ramblinj
Sorry, it still isn't clear from just a picture. Can you attach the actual score and give us step by step instructions to reproduce the problem? What exactly are you trying to accomplish with the instrument change or staff text, and what exactly goes wrong when you attempt it?
In reply to Sorry, it still isn't clear… by Marc Sabatella
1) load the synth with a non-standard drumset and put it at the top of the synth list
2) make sure a standard drumset shows up in sounds when the drumset box is enabled
3) disable the drumset box and make sure the non-standard drumset shows up in sounds
a) Now, without instrument change text markings you could play both sets with the mouse by enabling and disabling the drumset box. The sound would switch back and forth.
b) With the change text it will switch automatically but I cannot return to the original sound without using repeats.
c) I do not want to use repeats but want to use an instrument change and text mark to return to the original drumset (and sound)
Can this be done?
(BTW, the midi export eliminates the repeats,sets up three staffs and three channels)
In reply to 1) load the synth with a non… by ramblinj
It’s step three that still has me baffled. Why you you unchecking the drum set box? It’s still a drum set. Simply leave the box checked. Now, when you want to change sounds, simply use an instrument change text. You can add as many as you like to switch as often as you like.
In reply to It’s step three that still… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the help Marc. But I have worked on multiple combinations and am convinced now that the Musescore drumset cannot be combined easily with other drumsets. So i ask myself why? On the one hand Msc drumsets include many presets within. Other drumsets do not even show up in the same BANK. (bank 128) They show up with regular instruments (BANK 0) It seems that what allows instrument changes is that the rule of using the same STAFF is not violated. So, if all the drumsets loaded in the synth are in the Bank 0, they can be switched back and forth and to the original one you started with (which has no text marking) But you CANNOT switch back to the Musescore Drumset. The above explanation might help explain why. (As I mentioned, it matters not for midi streaming or any use where you can set up multiple staffs to start with. But it would have a use instructing a percussionist when to start up various drum machines.
In reply to Thanks for the help Marc… by ramblinj
I'm still not sure what trouble you are having. I don't have any particular problems changing drumsets at all, and I have never once in my life hit that drumset button on purpose. As long as your soundfont actually contains a drumset, it should show up normally in the list. If it doesn't contain a drumset, I guess you're a little out of luck, but you could still fake it by adding a normal staff and assigning the sound to that. I can't imagine why someone would design a soundfont specifically for percussion, though, and not provide a drumset.
In reply to I'm still not sure what… by Marc Sabatella
Finally progress. Two of the drumsets are not in the Msc drumset dropdown list but they are every bit drumsets. They show up at the top of the list with the drumset box disabled which also serves to confirm that their bank assignments are different. It is thus possible to write a drum part on a drum staff and make multiple instrument changes back and forth for drumsets with the drumset box disabled, or in other words, using instruments all from the same bank 0. But if you try to go from bank128 (box checked) to 0 and back to 128 it can't be done. Could you not just as easily ask why are drumsets usually put in bank 128.
In reply to Finally progress. Two of the… by ramblinj
OK, so it sounds like you are saying you want to use some sounds within the soundfont that are not in fact part of a drumset definition (if they were, they would appear as such). Short answer is, you can't do that. If the sounds really are unpitched in nature, then maybe someone with a soundfont editor could fix the soundfont to place those sounds within a proper drumset definition. Meanwhile, the other method I suggested should work: just have separate staves for the drumset notes versus the non-drumset notes, using hide empty staves so that only the relevant staff appears at one time, creating the illusion it is one staff throughout.
In reply to OK, so it sounds like you… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the discussion. That is pretty much it for now. Of course I can use separate staffs but I am trying not to. The soundfonts are both sampled drum machines. A percussionist can play a part (orch. percussion) and then turn on and off drum machines (Boss,Linn) at bars 5,8. He can then return to his part at bar 13. The single staff emulates this for playback. It works fine. BUT.....not if I start with an Msc drumset.
In reply to Thanks for the discussion. … by ramblinj
I get that you don’t want separate staves, that’s why my real suggestion is to use a soundfont editor to fix the soundfont to use a normal drumset configuration. that is, you are saying the proble. Comes from starting with a normal drumset, I’m saying that’s backwards, the problem comes from trying to a non-drum set. The soundfont should be fixed, then all should work. As I said, it works perfectly for me to switch back and forth between different drum sets from different soundfonts using nothing but instrument change texts to create the additional mixer channels, no riding of the drumset button required. The problem here is with the particular soundfont you are using it seems, but probably it’s fixable.
In reply to Finally progress. Two of the… by ramblinj
Quick thought (can not test)
Can you asign different drumsets to diferent voices? IE drumset 1 on voice 1, drumset 2 on voice 2.
The difficulty is to make it look like one "part". I've used this trick many times to get around other limitations.
If you are already using all 4 voices, this will not work. Assuming you can assign diferent drumsets to different voices.
Example: if you want the 3rd 16th note of beat 2 to be a sound from the "other" drumset, build the rest of the part on layer 1. "hide" the 16th note in question (make sure to set it to not sound)
Then use rests to get to that beat in layer 2, (tricky bit here) use 16th notes for the hole quarter note duration (4 16ths, to match pitches from layer 1), "hide" all but the needed note. Do this with all 16th notes in the same place as voice 1. If it works the stem will align with the beams.
... Also, if anyone can verify this, I would add it to my back of tricks. :-)
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In reply to Quick thought (can not test)… by StudioKereya
Ok... able to get on Musescore. Does not seem possible. :-(
However, there is this feature request which seems like it would do the trick:
https://musescore.org/en/node/301586
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