Frame Text ruined layout
I have been correcting MS 1.3 files that have been opened and saved in MS 2.0.3. In my opera, The Anasazi there is a lot of text originally created as Staff text, which works fine for stage directions, etc.. But when using the Hide Empty Staves Function to create condensed score, the text disappears if not created from a staff that has notes on it. I brought this up awhile ago, and was advised by the Forum to create FRAME TEXT that I was told will not break but remain in Hide empty Staves. OK, I just experimented with that, and what happened was when I selected a Measure rest and went to Add and did create a text frame,it widened out across the entire page and also stretched out 1 or 2 measures of the actual score notes across the entire page.
So I deleted the frame and things went back to normal on that page. So how can I use frame text? Does the Inspector figure in to this? I looked in the Handbook but could not figure it out. Thanks Someone.
Comments
select the measure you want to be after the frame, it doesn't mater whether that measure has a multi measuire rest or noe. insert text frame. done.
A text frame will though cause a system break at the measure before it, just like a vertical frame would too
If you don't want that, use a horizontal frame, There though the space is limited, make sure to stay within the frame's borders. You can widen the frame, but can't make it higher
So to be clear: since text frames always break systems, only insert them in places you want a break. If the score is otherwise formatted the way you like, and you want text between two systems, insert the text frame before the first measure of the second system.
In reply to So to be clear: since text by Marc Sabatella
Hello, Please see attachment below pg. 223. yes, i found that text frame will not work. I simply wanted the staff text of the spoken dialogue of the characters, which is formatted just the way i want it across the page, to not break when Hide empty Stave is used. I have just about decided that I should not try to use HES function at all on the remainder of my files. I may have to use up a lot expensive ink cartridges and more paper for the non condensed score (Unless you can tell me some way to preserve the text into HES function and in the same format across the page on the singers staves. Are you going to have a way that staff text created on an empty staff will not break in MS 2.0.4 I wonder? I could then later on use that for HES versions.Thank You.
In reply to Hello, Please see attachment by delhud2
There won't be a MuseScore 2.0.4.
But there will be a 2.1 and you can chaeck it out today, see https://musescore.org/en/download#Nightly-versions and get a 2.1 pre-version (don't take the master ones)
I'm not aware of any changes to how staff text on empty staves though. System text won't vanish on empty staves when HES is enable, Staff text will, after all that is why both exist.
And why not.just adding it as staff text to a staff that is not empty?
In reply to There won't be a MuseScore by Jojo-Schmitz
Re: 2.1 preversion-- A concern I now have: I have received news from Maestro Michael Butterworth, Conductor of the Boulder, CO Philharmonic Orchestra, that they are programming my "Ode to the Rockies" work for the 2017-18 season. I have to make a Musescore version from the original hand-written score used for the world premier in the 1980's.(Back in the dark ages.) I was just going to do this in 2.0.3, but now am wondering if you would recommend doing it in the 2.1 Preversion to be up- to- date? I also have to supply the parts to them, so I am hoping parts extraction really does work well! (Never have done it before.) Thank You delhud2
In reply to Re: 2.1 preversion-- A by delhud2
Might be a good test case to do it with a 2.1 pre-release. These are pretty stable, and scores written with them would also be readable in 2.0.x
In reply to Might be a good test case to by Jojo-Schmitz
i don't want to be a test case. i want something stable that I can count on and not get into trouble with this conductor!
In reply to i don't want to be a test by delhud2
Then go for 2.0.3. But in fact 2.1 might be even more stable
In reply to Re: 2.1 preversion-- A by delhud2
I have had no issues using 2.1 as a regular user for about the last week. Part extraction works fine. If you run into anything odd, don't be afraid to ask and specify you are using 2.1 pre-release. There are certain things that are easier in 2.1 than 2.0.3.
In reply to I have had no issues using by mike320
Hi, Thanks for your comment! I am worried about parts extraction. What if a dynamic marking was slightly off. For instance, what if a forte mark or diminuendo or something in the Flute part was a tad too low, would it then appear in the Oboe part!? For a short piece maybe not a problem to correct, but a 2 1/2 hour long opera????? I've always watched the little line and dot that appears when you cllck and drag a dynamic or other mark from where it originally appeared when you click on a note and create it. i guess that would show you if its out of extraction range for that instrument. I never wanted to be a music publisher or technician when I grew up, but MS is a good way to get stuff out, so I work with it! Del
In reply to Hi, Thanks for your comment! by delhud2
The answer to that is not straight forward because the reasons for them being a tad too low varies depending upon what you did to move them. If you always used the inspector to move them then they are still attached to the flute part (in your example). If you dragged them around the screen with your cursor the anchor point (the red dot at the other end of the line that is drawn from the symbol) may be on the oboe staff. If that's the case, you will want to either drag it back to the flute staff or delete it, add a new one and use the inspector to reposition it.
To easily see if the dynamics are on the correct line, Right click an item, such as a dynamic marking and then move your cursor over Select on the speed menu, the menu will grow and allow you to click All Similar Elements in the same Staff. If you scroll across the screen (hold shift and use the mouse wheel) all of the non black dynamic marks are on the same staff. All of the black ones are on a different staff. Most of the correct ones will be blue, some may be the colors of other voices, but that doesn't matter. You can easily find one, fix it, releselect all the dynamics in the staff again and look for the next one.
This of course is not quick automated process, but I believe it is the quickest way to check it. Unfortunately you can only do one staff at a time because if you select multiple staves you won't be able to tell which staff they are attached to. You shouldn't need to worry about (de)crescendos because they (in 2.x) will stay attached to their lines no matter how far you drag them.
In reply to Hello, Please see attachment by delhud2
I'm not understanding you are not using text frames - seems exactly the right tool for your purpose. Trying to abuse the wrong tool is what led to so many issues in your 1.3 scores in the first place. I also am not sure why you are not wanting to use "Hide empty staves". I mean, I know I've advised against it as most conductors will probably prefer you not use it, but I've also suggested you check with them first (the technical term is "condensed score" - find out if they prefer that to a "full score").
But anyhow, assuming I am missing something and there is some reason to resort to staff text rather than a frame for this purpose, I don't understand your question about staff text, either. What specifically are you wanting to happen, or not happen?
In reply to I'm not understanding you are by Marc Sabatella
i see, what the problem is.
See screenshots:
Normal:
![unhide-empty-staves.png]( "unhide-empty-staves.png")
with Hide Empty Staves:
![hide-empty-staves.png]( "hide-empty-staves.png")
In reply to i see, what the problem by Ziya Mete Demircan
Well, yes, this happens if you use a horizontal frame instead a text frame as has been suggested. Even so, the solution is simply - just add a spacer or page break after the second system to make sure another system doesn't collide with the text.
In reply to Well, yes, this happens if by Marc Sabatella
All this was originally set up in 1.3! As far as I know, there was no text frame in 1.3 I will send a comment and attachment today to show you why I'm not using text frame. Thank You.
In reply to All this was originally set by delhud2
You are correct - there is no text frame in 1.3. We are assuming you want to get your score looking good with the *current* version, so we are suggesting to you change to using text frames for things like this now. But if for some reason you would rather keep the current alyout where the lyrics interrupt a single system instead of appearing between two systems, simply use the method I described to ensure sufficient space between systems. That same method applied to both 1.3 and 2.0.3; there should be no difference that I can think of.
In reply to Well, yes, this happens if by Marc Sabatella
Please see attachment below, page 220. Most of the Staff text in my files were connected to staves with notes, but some were not, as on page 220 where the character Kochani has acting directions, "struggling to maintain a modicum of composure" etc. or some such--I always placed these on the staff which that character occupied at the time. But on this page, he is speaking as music is going on, so he had no notes on his staff! Please see Frame Text i created on this page. It for some reason is stretched across the bottom of the page. Also, I cannot get the staff text to paste in the text frame after copying it. and I do not see how I can move this frame around to appear in the correct area in the score where Kochani speaks, etc. It can't be at the bottom of the score!
To explain, I am printing these files at this time ONLY for my own records, to have an actual paper copy in my possession. So I would like condensed versions, and a few of the files did work well for that, but now for the remainder of my files in this opera I think it would be easIer for me to just print out the full score version! I would, though, like to know how to use frame text properly. I don't see hpw you get it appear where you want it in a musical or opera.
In reply to Please see attachment below, by delhud2
Ciao delhud2, they have a purpose the measures 216-222?
I have eliminated the line break of measure 221
In reply to Please see attachment below, by delhud2
All horizontal, vertical and text frames are applied to the whole systems only and precede the measure they are applied to (there are actually some that follow the measure). This means the one showing up on page 220 was likely applied to measure 236. To make text appear in only Kochani's staff, it needs to be staff text. If you want it on a certain staff in the conductor's score but on all parts, you need to enter it as staff text on the proper staff. Right click the text and select Text Properties... Under the font size is a checkbox that says "System flag" check this and it will appear on subsequently extracted parts. If you have already extracted parts, you will need to extract the parts again to see this, it is not automatically applied to extracted parts. This applies to both 2.0.3 and 2.1.
You will probably want to delete the empty text frame at the bottom of the page. If you really want to copy staff text into it, you need to double click the text box and select all the text, copy it and paste it. You can't replace a text frame with staff text.
In reply to Please see attachment below, by delhud2
a Recitative... but no rhythmic guide (rhythmic notes).
May be: a hidden note on voice2 is holding for dry_recitative text. (And untick play for this note on inspector.)
Or: Use rhythmic guiding notes for recitative, if necessary.
--
PS: I saw many manual adjustments in this work. Maybe it's better to use it for the next ones.
In reply to Please see attachment below, by delhud2
OK, so you have staff text attached to an empty measure in measure 230 - that's fine. I can see why you'd want that. The question is, what is the problem you are perceiving with this? MuseScore supports that just fine. Something about what happens if you then generate parts, and/or turn on multimeasure rests, and/or hide empty staves?
I can *guess* the problem you have in mind is that while the text *does* cause the measure to be seen as non-empty when it comes to multimeasure rests (which I assume you agree is a good thing), it does *not* cause the measure to be seen as non-empty when it comes to hiding empty staves. The workaround is to simply add an invisible note to the measure to make sure it is seen as non-empty.
See #44956: Empty bars with text not visible when hiding empty staves - we have decided to change this behavior for 3.0. It is *possible* we'd decide to also include this change in 2.1, but it would mean scores would render differently, so I think there would probably need to be a stronger case made for this change before it would be considered for that release. See the discussion in https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/2311. We considered incorporating this fichange into 2.0.3 then decided against it, because we wanted 2.0.3 to be as fully compatible with 2.0.2 as possible. I think maybe it does deserve consideration for 2.1 though.
In reply to Please see attachment below, by delhud2
Text frames are always stretch across the page. That is indeed their purpose - to appear *between* systems, not *within* a single system. In most cases, this is how music is published, so that is why we recommended it. If it is not appear at the correct place, then I guess you added it at the wrong place. Again, simply identify the measure you want the text to appear *before*, and add the frame there. Then the frame will appear before that measure. Simple as that.
In reply to Text frames are always by Marc Sabatella
Huh, I don't get it. The Text Frame appeared at the bottom of the page, not before the measure i selected. I'm not even going to bother with it now. I am just going on with the printing. Thank you
In reply to i see, what the problem by Ziya Mete Demircan
Yes, i understand what happened here. I have decided not to use Hide Empty Staves at all for printing the remainder of my opera files yet to be printed. It simply does not work well--text problems and Staff Text disappearances. I do realize conductors would most likely want uncondensed scores. I just wanted condensed for my own records on paper.
In reply to Yes, i understand what by delhud2
Hide empty staves *does* work well, you just need to use it correctly. If you continue to have problems, please start a new thread, attach the score you are having problems with, and give precise steps to reproduce the problem - the usual drill.
In reply to Hide empty staves *does* work by Marc Sabatella
Thank you for the offer of help. At this point, I am happily printing nothing but the full score for the rest of my opera files. Don't want to spend time trying to deal with disappearing staff text, mainly.
Thank You for your reply about parts etc. The Inspector would be slow and clumsy. In fact, the directions you gave would be slow and virtually unusable for an operatic score of around 350 pages or more, I think.
In reply to Thank You for your reply by delhud2
Not sure what specifically you are talking about here. The Inspector is about making various manual adjustments that ideally you should *not* be doing as much as have. but it makes the job of manual adjustments easier, not harder, so if you are already doing manual adjustments, the Inspector is just an easier / more powerful way of doing the job. If there is something specific you are having trouble with regarding the Inspector - or some problem for which you believe the Inspector has been suggested as a way of solving but you are not sure how to actually accomplish this - again, a new thread might be in order.
In reply to Not sure what specifically by Marc Sabatella
OK. I was told doing it on the Inspector would make sure it did not disappear in Hide empty Stave, etc.