OT: Notation Questions

• Jun 4, 2012 - 20:24

Hi;
I'm new to scoring music and having a hard time figuring out signos, codas and voltas. Here's a really hard one for me that perhaps you can help me unweave:
1. I have a song that starts out with an intro that is never repeated.
2. Then I have a section that is always repeated. I have placed a signo at the beginning and a "D.S. al Coda" at the end.
3. Next I have a section that is played once after the second repeat of #2. I have placed a volta with #1 there and ended it with a "D.S. al Fine".
4. Finally, I play #2 again and go to a final piece. I have placed a volta with #2 there and ended it with a "Fine".
Unfortunately, this plays #4 immediately after #3: it doesn't go to the signo. Please advise.

BTW, when does one use brackets and parenthesis?

TIA,
Beno

Comments

• Jun 5, 2012 - 06:36

Why not just use ordinary repeats for #2? DS, DC, and Codas are for more complex routing instructions - wrapping and entire section that contains repeats internally, or going back to the beginning (or near the beginning) after very many bars. It seems to me you are making your piece unnecessarily complicated to read.

As for brackets and parenthesis, what do you mean? Does this have something to do with repeats? I can't think of anything having to do with repeats that involves brackets or parentheses. The only specific use I know for brackets is to connect related staves within a score.

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• Jun 5, 2012 - 13:41

I don't know what you mean "use ordinary repeats". I don't see how that's possible here, seeing as how I repeat twice, then repeat with the first volta, then need to repeat with the second volta. Let it be complex! The musicians might fumble through the first time, but then they'll get it. Plus, I need something I can send to *.wav and put into my iPod to sing to. I could cut and paste the whole thing, but I'm a programmer, and we programmers would rather do it right (even if it means taking 10 times the time otherwise necessary lol).

With regard to brackets and parenthesis, that question has nothing to do with the above. I simply don't understand when they're necessary. You say to connect related staves in a score. How would the be related? I want to know when I should use them. Can you give an example?
TIA,
Beno

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• Jun 5, 2012 - 15:18

Your original post says under #2: "Then I have a section that is always repeated. I have placed a signo at the beginning and a "D.S. al Coda" at the end." That's the section that seem to me an ordinary repeat would do the job for.

As for cutting and pasting, I'm not sure what that has to do with programming. Cutting and pasting is the time honored way of repeating sections of text, music, and really *anything* in any computer program. If the road map in your score is too complex to be easily captured with repeat signs, DS/DCoda signs, then writing it all out is absolutely the correct way to do it - the way it's been done for centuries. Use repeats and DS/DC/Coda for the simple things they are good at, write it out for the complex things that those symbols don't handle well.

I'm not saying what you want to do *can't* be accomplished with symbols rather than writing it out, but right now, I don't really understand what you are trying to do, because based on your description, it seems a simple repeat for #2 is completely sufficient. The fact that you are having difficulty communicating what you actually mean is the perfect indication that human musicians reading the score will similarly have difficulties, which is more reason to just write it out (ie, copy and paste) if it really is too complex for ordinary repeats and DS/DC/Coda.

Perhaps if you drew a picture, that could help you explain what you really mean, and then we'll be able to see if this is something traditional repeat and DS/DC/Coda signs can handle.

As for brackets, I mean, like all the trumpets in a big band arrangement would be bracketed together, as would all the saxophones. Or all woodwinds in an orchestra, or all strings. Related instruments in an ensemble.

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• Jun 5, 2012 - 19:20

Anyway, so you suggest a "simple repeat". Remember, you're talking to a noob here. From the description of the post before yours, that looks like an equals sign turned 90 degrees followed by a colon and is available under "Lines for Measures" or some such (I'm using the Spanish translation and trying to translate to English). However, when I try to drag that to the score, it appears it only applies to one staff, whereas the signo applies to all staffs/instruments.

You don't understand what I'm asking for despite my dearest attempts to be clear and I don't understand what you're recommending despite yours. Can you either (a) do something with my score that does what you think I'm trying to accomplish, or; (b) send me one of yours that does something similar to what you think I'm trying to accomplish?

With respect to programming, the whole concept of OO is encapsulation so that we don't have to rewrite the same code over and over again. I would not like to rewrite the same music over and over again for the same reason: if I tweak later, I only tweak once ;)
TIA,
Beno

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• Jun 5, 2012 - 22:06

You don't need a new subject each - just leave it blank. The *option* of providing a new subject is there for you, though.

As for repeats - they definitely apply to all staves. Wouldn't make sense otherwise - all instruments are always at the same place in a score. What makes you think it is only applying to one staff? Btw, no need to drag and drop - just click a bar line and double click the icon in the palette.

You are of course right that we are having difficulty communicating, and I am sorry I cannot speak your language where presumably you would be able to express yourselves perfectly clearly. I am not anywhere that I can sit down with your piece and try to figure out what you mean right now, but if this is still an issue by tomorrow I will see what I can do.

As for OO programming, I do get what you mean now about resisting copy and paste. But you have to realize, music notation was not invented to make *anything* possible to notate. Only that which is common & expected. If you wish to do something that is not common and expected, sometimes you have to resort to "brute force" (hopefully that phrase, common among American programmers, translates OK?). Even if you came up with some set of instructions that you thought explained your intent, if it's not a familiar instruction, there is almost no chance of musicians reading and interpreting it correctly. I've seen more "train wrecks" resulting from attempts to shorten a chart by replacing written out repeats with instructions than I care to count - indeed, it's the single biggest source of such problems.

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• Jun 5, 2012 - 23:28

I like your explanation. I'll have to work on this tomorrow. As far as language is concerned, I have to laugh because my *first* (native) language is English and my second is Spanish...I just talk and write it at native level any more. Nah, we're just having a problem communicating because I'm not a trained musician, etc. I'll update tomorrow.
Thanks,
Beno

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