transposition primer
Hi,
I just installed MuseScore and working on it for the 1st time.
I want to transpose a piece of music written for piano in Eb Major key, for Alto Sax.
I don't have a pdf, just a jpg so I don't think I can scan the original. So I am copying by hand the whole sheet from the jpg photo into MuseScore. Is there any other way to do it ?
Then, I tried to transpose a few notes I've written (originally in Eb maj key) into Alto Sax. While searching for transposition in the forum I understand I should select all (ctrl A) then Notes. Then I have the choice "Transpose by key" or "by interval".
Which one should I chose ?
If I select "by key" then select C Major (because Eb on Alto Sax = C on piano), then I have the key changed to C and all other notes accordingly (e.g. Bb changes to G). Everything seems correct.
If I select "by interval" then select "up major sixth" (for Alto), then I also get the right key (C maj) and notes but the notes are too high (written in red).
What is the right method ?
thanks
Comments
Juch changing the instrument from piano to alto sax should do the transposition for you and at the same time also give it the right sound
Or, as you're entring from scratch anyway (and no there currently is no reasonable other way that this), create the instrument as alto sax, toggle concert pitch, enter the notes just like they are in the piano score and toggle concert pitch again.
In reply to Juch changing the instrument by Jojo-Schmitz
your first method (changing the instrument):
I right click in a measure and select "staff properties", then select alto sax. All it does is adding the name alt sax before every line without changing the key and the notes! (I tried that before). I apparently do something wrong!
your second method (which is interesting because I don't have to type everything in the original Eb key for piano):
I begin to write in Eb major (Bb, Eb, Ab) key, say a B note (which is played Bb in this key).
I toggle concert pitch (menu Notes/concert pitch).
Unfortunately, it changes the key to Db major (with Bb, Eb, Ab, Db and Gb). Then, the B note becomes G# and since all the G in that key are flat, G# is actually played as G because G# flat == G. So in the end the note is correct but I'd prefer it changed the key to natural C and put a simple G instead.
Why is it doing this way ? any way to instruct it to write in natural C major ?
In reply to your first method (changing by ijohnnygo
Assuming you created the score for piano and alto saxophone in the first place, you should not be touching staff properties or any transpose command. Everything you need is done automatically by the Concert Pitch toggle button at top left of the screen. When it is turned on, all notes are entered and displayed at their sounding pitch. When you turn it off, the alto part is *automatically* displayed with the appropriate transposition.
You can enter notes with concert pitch on or off. If you enter notes with Concert Pitch on, enter them at the desired *sounding* pitch. If you enter notes with Concert Pitch off, enter them at the desired *written* pitch.
*If* you accidentally created the score for some instrument other than alto saxophne, then you will need to chane it to alto sax in the staff properties. The Concert Pitch button will still work exactly as I described. When it is turned on, notes will be displayed at sounding pitch. When it is turned off, they will be displayed at written pitch.
I can't quite inderstand what you mean in your last paragraph. Attaching a sample score would help. But perhaps reading my explanation above will help you see whatever it is you are doing wrong.
In reply to Assuming you created the by Marc Sabatella
Thanks a lot for taking your time with me.
The original music is remark1.jpg. The melody is written for piano but I want to transpose it for alto sax (an Eb instrument that is the key Eb in the file is == key C for sax alto).
The second file shows that I started with concert pitch ON and literally copying the notes from remark1.jpg to test.mscz.
Now if I turn the concert pitch OFF, I'll have the Db major key and what I described in my previous post (while I'd prefer a natural C major key without all those # and b).
If you're confused on what I'm saying, forget everything and just show me the way how you'd do it simply given what I want to do. Here it is:
I just want to re-write remark1.jpg for my son playing alto sax.
Since I want to play the original chords on guitar with him "as written on remark1.jpg" (that is without transposing and changing pitch), how should I do ?
In reply to Thanks a lot for taking your by ijohnnygo
Start out with a new score in Eb major Major, include Alto Sax, which then will be in C major. Toggle concert pitch (and the sax will be in Ebmajor) and enter the notes as per the jpg, toggle concert pitch again and voila
In reply to Start out with a new score in by Jojo-Schmitz
OK. I did that and wrote the two first measures.
The only problem is I get the notes one octave too high (the key is correctly C major). How can I bring it all one octave lower ?
I don't want to do it at the end, after I completely write the entire music. I want it shows one octave lower right now, so I can check what I am writing from time to time.
In reply to OK. I did that and wrote the by ijohnnygo
you can move notes down an octave by selectine them and hitting shift down-arrow
Or you could use the G clef with the the littls 8 above the stave
In reply to OK. I did that and wrote the by ijohnnygo
As I explained in my previous post, what are getting is *not* actually an octave too high. Too high to play, of course, but that because the original music really *is* to high to play for alto saxophone, in the intro anyhow (the rest of it is fine). As mentioned, you will have to take the parts that really are too hgh for alto and transpose them down. While you can certainly try to anticiapte which passages will be too hgh while entering the notes, it is generally easier to enter everything as written, then turn off Concert Pitch and see for yourself what looks too high, then transpose those passage down an octave (down very easily - select the passage, ctrl-down).
In this song, it is mostly just the intro that is too high, so that's probably need to transpose down. In fact, if you tried to transpose the restof the song down, it would be too *low* to play.
In reply to Thanks a lot for taking your by ijohnnygo
I,m not sure how you created that file, but when I look at Staff Properties, it shows the play transposition interval as a diminished third up. That's not correct - it should be a major sixth down. That is, an alto sax sounds a major sixth lower than written. I don't know what you did to cause the interval to be listed wrong, but simoly changing to what it should be causes it to work as it should. You can either change the interval setting yourself (to major sixth down) or you can simply use Change Instrument and select alto saxophone from the list, which will automatically set up the correct transposition. Or, as I said, had you somply selected alto saxophone as your instrument when you created the score.
BTW, if you do any of this, it will display the alto part a major sixth higher than it sounds, and in the key of C - both of which are correct. However, there may be passages (like the intro) where the part is already written pretty high, and having it written a major sixth higher puts it higher in the alto saxophone range than you probably want. So you may wish to take some passages down an octave (meaning they will sound an octave lower than originally written). That's a pretty common thing to meed to do with alto saxophone. With tenor saxophone, you almost *always* have to take the whole thing down an pctave to make it playable.
In reply to I,m not sure how you created by Marc Sabatella
I don't remember how did I create that test file but for sure I entered that menu and entered Alto Sax instrument and also set the major sixth lower and I was wondering which way to go. You seem to say both ways give the same result.
Assuming I checked the right instrument, as I said above, I get the notes one octave higher.
In the second part of your post, you say "some passages" may require playing one octave lower. Why just some passages ? Either the complete melody is written one octave higher or not ! I don't want to mess with octaves. Once I get started, I want the relative distance between any two notes (transposed) to be the same as the original.
So my simple question is how to get them all, and for the rest of the notes I'll write (I just wrote the 2 first measures), one octave lower ?
In reply to I don't remember how did I by ijohnnygo
If you transscribe a piece to also sax thfrom üpiano, it is to be expected that not all notes fit without changing their octave, because the piano has a much larger range than the alto sax.
If you want all an octave lower, either select all and shitt arrow-down to move them down, or 'fake' this by using G clef 8va,
In reply to I don't remember how did I by ijohnnygo
The reason only some passages are toohigh is that because that is how the music is written. It was not written for alto saxophone and cannot be expected to all be playable as written. It is completely normal and practically unavoidable that a melody not originally written for alto saxophone may have portions of it that are too high (and/or portions that are too low) to be playable on that instrument. So alto player are constantly having to take certain passages down when playing music not originally written for that instrument. It's just a fact of life when playing an instrument whose range is noticeably lower thanthat of othermelody instru,ents. With *tenor* sax, you pretty much just expect to play *everything* down an octave, but alto is kind of in an in between land where it's common to find some parts need to be played where originally written and other parts need to come down an octave. And that is definitely the case here. If you tried taking the rest of the piece down, it wold be too low. Only the ontro was originally written too high for alto, so only the inteo needs to come down. Well, there might be another
Assage somewhere else (I don't remember for sure), but mostly, the melody already is as low as an alto can play it.
I have a different question. Sorry to ask it here but I need you look at the file remark1.jpg
In the beginning of the A part (see remark1.jpg), I have two B notes separated by a "tie".
When I create the second B note, it automatically glue it to the first B resulting in a two "glued" crochets. How should I do for having two separate crochets (not glued) as in the jpg, the second one being glued to the following 4 triple crochets (BCBG) exactly as in the jpg ?
I know the resulting timing is the same but the sheet would be simpler to read as in the original (and I guess I'll have lots of this kind of behavior to correct).
In reply to I have a different question. by ijohnnygo
I don't know what you mean by "glued" here. Also, I don't see any crotchets anywhere near letter A - is all quavers, semiquavers, semidemihemiquavers and whatnot.
I can only guess that maybe you mean, when you first enter the notes, they appear fairly close together. That's normal; they'll space themsevles out more as rhe line fills up, and also if you insert lone breaks. If that's not what you're talking about, then you might want to oost your score as t is now - and I would recommend doing it in another (appropriately titled) thread' so it will be easier for others will similar questions to find. You can simply include a link back to this thread if you're concerned about people being able to find the file you uploaded previously.
On further reflection, I think I've figured out what you mean by "glued" - you mean, a *beam*. see the section entitled Beam in the handbook for infor on how to overrirde default beaming. This is an area where I find it very useful to define keyboard shortcuts (edit / preferences / shortcuts) for those commands, so I can break or join with just a single keystroke immediately after entering a nite. The defaults are correct most of the time, but music using lots of mixed eighths (quavers) and sixteenths (semiquavers) will have quite a few situations where you want to override the default.