Last bar/anacrusis question
Please note, this is not at all a problem with MuseScore! I am wondering if someone can help me out with a question re the attached.
Given the anacrusis, which is the equivalent of a 1/8 note, I would expect there to be five 1/8 beats in the last bar to compensate, which I believe is normal practice.
However, because of the repeat which sees the fourth line repeated, and thus becoming the 'last' line, which of the shown rests should be deleted? The quaver rest at the end of the fourth line, or the one at the end of the fifth line?
It might be a question that stumped the publishers, as they printed the piece as shown.
Comments
Sorry attachment seemed to disappear.
The convention of shortening the last measure to make up for an anacrusis used to be more common than it is today. Some publishers still do this, but even then, mostly only for the types of music where it makes sense. So unless you have a special reason to need to emulate this practice (eg, to satisfy a publisher or teacher who requires it), there is no shame in simply blowing it off as many if not most modern publishers do.
Anyhow, if you do decide to emulate this practice and are trying to decide how to implement it, then it makes sense to consider the *reason* this practice exists in the first place. I have always assumed to be, so that if you choose to repeat the entire piece (common for short dance forms, or hymns with multiple verses), it's clear that the pickup on the repeat steals its time from the last played measure. So, you shorten the last played measure (which might be the last measure of the piece, or might be a Fine somewhere in the middle of the piece). For the same reason, it makes sense to shorten any measure that repeats back to the beginning for any other reason - a repeat back to the top or a DC.
In your case, as far as I can tell, if you're to shorten anything, it's the Fine bar. A double bar placed before the final eighth rest (you can drag a barline directly to the rest, although you have to do it for each staff separately) would do the trick. Then you'd change the existing double barline to a regular one. Some editors would put the line break right on the interior double bar. That would require actual dividing the measure into two rather than placing it visually via drag & drop.
In reply to The convention of shortening by Marc Sabatella
I experimented with what you are saying. (I didn't know you could drag the barline directly to the rest, so I've learnt something, at least!) If you just separate the quaver rest from the remainder of the Fine bar, you still have an extra beat, overall. And if you delete it altogether, then that is an odd bar when the fourth line is played for the first time i.e. it doesn't have enough beats in it. It isn't really a problem as such, I was just interested to know what is the technically and structurally correct way to present this.
Perhaps a solution would be to use repeats and volta lines, but I'm not even sure how this would be set up :)
All rhetorical, anyway.
Regards.
In reply to Thanks Marc by garos
Not sure what you when you say "if you just separate the quaver rest from the remainder of the Fine bar, you still have an extra beat, overall". I don't see any extra beats anywhere if we assume the Fine occurs at the mid-measure double bar, not at the final bar. The piece ends after 5 beats of the Fine measure, so the player is ready to then repeat the entire piece if the dancers or singers request it.
This is the way editors who elect to use this convention do things - it's the standard way of handling what is actually a pretty common situation. You definitely don't delete the rest, because then (as you observe) you'd be missing a beat in the non-Fine case.
I see now that you've actually uses this exact device elsewhere in the same piece - you do it at the end of most lines in fact. That is, you have a 5/8 (actual) measure at the end of the line, then a 1/8 (actual) measure at the beginning of the next. So the absolutely most correct most standard way to handle the Fine is the same way - 5/8 (actual) at the end of the line, 1/8 (actual) at the start of the next (even though it would just be a rest). Put the double bar at the end of the 5/8, just a single at the end of the 1.8. And attach the Fine to the 5/8. Looking over the editions of short dance pieces I have in my collection, I see that exact same thing over and over.
In reply to Not sure what you when you by Marc Sabatella
I entirely agree with your suggestion to reposition the 1/8 rest at the end of the fourth line to the beginning of the fifth. It is the solution that makes the most sense. However, as I am just transposing for a B flat instrument, I guess I'll just leave it as published.
Thanks and regards,
Garry.
In reply to The convention of shortening by Marc Sabatella
Surely the easiest thing is to select the final measure, right-click and select 'Measure Properties'. Then change the 'Actual' measure length, cutting it short by the value of the anacrusis. If, say, a 4/4 piece starts with the last crotchet of a measure, reduce the actual length of the final bar, making it last three crotchet beats. I have found that this doesn't affect playback, and the final bar lasts for the correct length thus shortened.
Hi Garos, just listened to your piece and noticed that the dotted crotchets tied to another crotchet or dotted quarter note tied to another quarter note (4th bar eg) you have used a slur rather than a tie. As regards reading it makes no difference of course but if you want it to sound 'as played' then use the shift and + key. Apologies if teaching grandma to suck eggs.
In reply to Tie/slur by onscuba
Good catch! Actually, I'd say it's worth fixing even not considering playback. For one thing, while they look "similar", ties and slurs actually do look noticeably different in the details, and it can be a bit jarring (and hence a hindrance to sightreading) to see one where the other is meant. I see you have manually edited the slurs to look a little more like ties, but entering them as ties is better still, and less work anyhow. Also, when entered as slurs, moving one note up or down won't move the other note, and accidentals won't be handled as they should for ties, either.
Ties are entered using the "+" key or the corresponding icon on the note entry toolbar; see Tie in the Handbook. You will have to manually flip some of the ties (select & press X), as the default for ties between chords is not good (outer ties should be opposite directions).
In reply to Tie/slur by onscuba
No, I didn't know about inserting the ties like that! I just used the slur/tie in the Lines section of the palette. I assumed MuseScore just didn't recognise the tie, the same as it appears not to recognise a fermata. Of course, I could be attaching those incorrectly, too :)
It would have helped to know about the tie in order for the playback to be correct, but basically it doesn't matter, as I just doing some transposing, and the printed version is fine.
It also might have save some time, as Marc suggested, but I usually fiddled with the slurs/ties, anyway, as I find the default to be too exuberant.
Thanks for your interest.
In reply to Onscuba by garos
The symbol in the Lines palette is a slur; ties are entered via the toolbar or keyboard shortcuts. Slurs are *supposed* to be much bigger than ties; the default is actually very good in msot cases. Ties are supposed to be small, but actually, in more cases than I'd like, they are *too* small by default and need to be edited to appear bigger (or the notes spaced further apart).
Fermatas should work. As with most palette items, either click a note/rest then double click the palette icon, or drag the paletteicon directly to the note/rest and release when it highlights. Doesn't *playback*, but it works as far as notation goes.
In reply to The symbol in the Lines by Marc Sabatella
I had no trouble placing them. They just don't have any effect when playing back.
Cheers.
In reply to Yes by garos
As I said on another thread recently, playback is the Achilles heel of MuseScore currently.
At present not all score elements affect playback.
Things will improve with MuseScore 2 when it arrives, but even so there will still be some gaps.
Once the programming team have finished sorting out all the engraving issues, then I am sure they will begin to look at playback.