Changing the style of notation (Horn in F)
Generally, horn in F is notated without any key signatures regardless of the key of the piece. However, the default notation in musescore is: e.g. when the overall key is C, the horn get one sharp.
Is there a way to change the style of notation only for the horn into that with no key signatures regardless of the key of the piece?
Comments
Change the 'local key signature' (using Ctrl+drag) to 'none' (that geyed out X)
Are you sure ??? if UT instruments are in C, F instruments are in G so 1 sharf at the key , if you don't write the key signature, you will get the Sharp before every G. It is not important but if the need was 5 sharps, it becomes unreadable
In reply to Are you sure ??? if UT… by Raymond Wicquart
Actually, Apple is correct: in orchestral scores through at least the beginning of the 20th c., standard practice was to write transposing brass instruments (but not woodwinds) without a key signature; so, in C maj, a Cor Anglais part would have a key signature with one sharp, but not a Horn--each F# would be notated as an accidental. (This had something to do do with development from "natural" horns, but don't ask me why.) Standard editorial practice may have changed since then, I'm not sure.
In reply to Actually, Apple is correct:… by wfazekas1
Through much of the 19th century horns had no valves and changed crooks to play in different keys. So a piece in concert "F" would have the horn player change crooks to be in "F". For him, no sharps or flats. Unless you are arranging for a group using period instruments, please write for modern horns in "F". Which now, and for the last hundred years or so, means transposed up a forth from concert key. It's a transposing instrument in the same way that Bb clarinet, Bb trumpet, or Eb saxophone are.
In reply to Through much of the 19th… by bobjp
No, I understand the development of modern horns from crooked natural horns, and their transposition--I'm merely referring to whether the transposed parts are notated with a new key signature (or any key signature whatever). They aren't, at least in scores through those written by Debussy or Mahler (who were writing for essentially modern, valved horns.) As I said, this might be different in modern editorial practice, I don't know--although they would still be transposed, at least in parts, if not in the score.
Anyway, this is all side-comment to the original query.
In reply to No, I understand the… by wfazekas1
With or without key signature is a matter of taste/tradition. In the orchestral world some contemporary composers stick to the tradition of no key sig, others put one in. In the concert band world I think key signatures are pretty much universal nowadays.
In reply to No, I understand the… by wfazekas1
And Brahms supposedly disliked the valved horn and did not write for it. There were certainly others.
Tradition dies hard, I know.
But consider this (and of course, feel free to reject it): If you are recreating and old score, I would ask what is to be gained from continuing an outdated tradition? Why arrange for an instrument and notation not in common use?
If you are writing something new, why not make it forward compatible? I say this as a brass player.
In reply to And Brahms supposedly… by bobjp
I am aware that this is an old thread, but right now I am facing exactly the question raised here : should Horn in F use a key signature or not? I am working from the manuscript of an opera written around 1920-23, and Horn in F and Trumpet do not use a key signature. All accidentals are individually shown as and when they occur.
So I turned to Elaine Gould's "Behind Bars" (published 2011), where I found this passage on p.263:
Key signatures
Trombones and tubas take key signatures, trumpets and horns usually do not. Horn players, in particular, are so unused to reading key signatures that it is better not to use them.
I also checked a symphony by the same composer, which was professionally typeset for publication about 6 years ago. And I found the same convention was used: horns and trumpets do not use a key signature. Admittedly my evidence is all based on conventions used for classical music in the UK.
In reply to I am aware that this is an… by DanielR
Interesting. I am aware of those conventions, of course.
As a Music Education major in the US, I took classes in theory, sight singing, composition, conducting, and instruments (we learned, by doing, the basics of playing them). In all the years of playing trumpet, I can't remember not having key signatures. I took some horn lessons, and lack key signatures was never mentioned.
The quote seems to hint that horn players might not be smart enough to read key signatures. Certainly not the case with the horn players I have known.
But then, that's just my experience in the US. I wonder if publishers produce different editions for different countries.
In reply to Interesting. I am aware of… by bobjp
"The quote seems to hint that horn players might not be smart enough to read key signatures"
I was a bit startled by Elaine Gould's remark, but I don't think it was meant as insulting! More that the tradition of "no key signature" for the horn is so firmly entrenched, at least in the UK?
In reply to I am aware that this is an… by DanielR
My understanding is that in Classical scores, transposing brass instruments are written without a key signature; however in Jazz and many Band scores, they are written with one. Of course, in many 20th c. scores there is no key signature to begin with, so it's immaterial. If this is incorrect, please let me know.
Glancing at a couple of 20th c. scores, I see Stravinsky and Shostakovich did not use key signatures, Britten (who is British) did.
I would say that, even if you're trying to create a "critical edition," it's best to respect the notation preferences of the composer.
In reply to My understanding is that in… by wfazekas1
Horn in no key is a tradition. Certainly not a rule. Why would it be? Whether or not there is a key signature doesn't make a bit if difference in the sound produced by the instrument. Shostakovich wrote no key because that's what he was taught. He was taught that because he lived closer to the time that was the reason for no key. Do you suspect that he would respect the notation preferences of someone who used key signatures for horn?
Only slightly off topic, but Beethoven would, no doubt, be shocked to hear how his music is performed today. Mostly because most of the instruments used today didn't exist back then in their present form. As well as playing styles are much different.