MuseScore or musescore.com to "blame" for chord displacement?

• Mar 4, 2021 - 14:57

Hi!

First of all, my strong belief is that that the error below is to do with latest backend on "musescore.com".
However, last post in my thread there shifted the problem back to the software wich I'm having trouble believing... https://musescore.com/groups/improving-musescore-com/discuss/5092129#

Hope for your input and ideas... here goes.

Problem:
Chords are displayed correct according to set style in software but misaligned when uploaded on website. This occurs with both default settings and custom styles/custom chord XML. When fretboards are present the misalignement seems to increase. See examples below and in thread linked above:

chord symbols4.JPG

Below is example with default settings where the effect is apparent :

chord symbols5.JPG

Theory:
Latest backend doesn't "read" set style for "Chord symbols", "Fretboard diagrams" and "Text styles -> Chord Symbol" correct some how.

The one only thing that I can think of that is somehow MS3-related is that the centering of chords above fretboards gets misaligned when fretnumber is set to position "right" but how this could be the culprit here is beside me:

chord symbols6.JPG

Hoping for ideas and suggestions...

MuseScore 3.6.2.548021803 3224f34. Attached are also example files, custom styles and custom xml's.

Best regards

Andreas

Attachment Size
stdchords_bass - Kopia.xml 13.53 KB
chords_std_own.xml 10.77 KB
own3.mss 100.31 KB
Air Supply - All Out Of Love.mscz 76.54 KB
test2.mscz 6.69 KB

Comments

• Mar 5, 2021 - 01:09

So the gist is this.

OE score-center justified chord symbols
Score viewed on .com-right justified chord symbols
Downloaded score-center justified chord symbols
Downloaded PDF-right justified chord symbols

Can we assume that a PDF of the downloaded score is also center justified?

I can create a score with center justified symbols (although it does funny things to note spacing sometimes), and make PDF with centered symbols. It seems to me that is it were a software issue, the PDF would be incorrect. In your case, the score was fine until the .com site got ahold of it. They were the last ones with it. What happened?

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• Mar 5, 2021 - 18:02

To elaborate:

OE score-center justified chord symbols (correct)
Score viewed on .com-right justified chord symbols (correct... other issues also occur when fretboards are present)
Downloaded score-center justified chord symbols (correct... at least when downloaded by myself)
Downloaded PDF-right justified chord symbols (correct... other issues also occur when fretboards are present)

Just exported PDF from software and that PDF is displayed correctly (what-you-see-is-what-you-get).

My theory still leans towards that .com backend doesn't read style settings for chords correct... and somewhat sad is that I can't find a workaround for this... more sad is that response/attention from .com developers has been "not so good". :(

It's on to making scores in MS but I'll have to wait to upload until issue is resolved.

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• Mar 5, 2021 - 22:03

AFAIK, right justified is the norm. Honestly, had you not pointed it out, I wouldn't have thought anything of it.

Though I understand that center is what you want. Sure .com should be able to reproduce what you want. I'm not sure this is a deal breaker.

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• Mar 5, 2021 - 23:22

I wouldn't call the misalignement "a couple of millimeters"... see example below of old vs. new backend.
https://musescore.com/user/16129966/scores/6480102?share=copy_link
https://musescore.com/user/16129966/scores/6619460/s/P0FlO6?share=copy_…

chord symbols7.JPG

And although opinions may differ, I don't believe that this is "a couple of millimeters":

chord symbols5.JPG

I have to stand by my opinion that something might be "wrong" with the latest backend... 'WYSIWYG' is something that worked before but doesn't now.

And also views on quality differ between persons... I wouldn't be satisfied with a score as displayed in example two above while you perhaps would...

So no, it's not "Oh, look what I found" for me... for me it's like "I believe I found and error and was thinking of having a discussion/getting tips about probable causes/workarounds in the group intended for just that".

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• Mar 5, 2021 - 23:54

I agree it appears to be a case of the style settings somehow not being honored correctly. I see a number of different files, links, and images here, so it's a little unclear where to begin in investigating. Could you maybe attach one single score, with one single link to the uploaded version of that score on musescore.com, so we can investigate more easily?

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• Mar 6, 2021 - 18:27

This score does not report that it was ever uploaded to musescore.com as far as I can tell. Are you sure that's the right copy of the file? If so, what is the URL of the version on MuseScore?

Also, was the score created within 3.6, or was it originally created in an earlier version then imported? There are a number of kind of strange things going on with it I don't totally understand (invisible notes for no obvious reason, spacers that seem like they should not have been needed, etc), so knowing more about where the score came from would help.

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• Mar 7, 2021 - 00:35

Thank you for giving this time... much appreciated!

The score was uploaded as "public" on feb 28, 2021 with 3.6.2.548021803 rev.3224f34 and also created from scratch in that version/revision. https://musescore.com/user/16129966/scores/6637372

Invisible notes: I use muted, invisible notes to guide what staffs to display on different pages when "Hide empty staves" is selected in 'style'.

Spacers: I use spacers to try to have the greatest possibility of adjusting staff spaces individually on different pages... and also to regulate space between treble/TAB staff since it doesn't seem possible to assign staff of your own choice "grand staff" (e.g. above with staves 4 & 5 and 6 & 7).

Perhaps there are more easier ways to handle the above effects but that is how I've always done it and it's given me "control" over the layout - but honestly, tedious sometimes.

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• Mar 7, 2021 - 23:16

If that was the same copy of the score that was uploaded, that URL should be appearing as the Source in File / Score Properties, but it is not. That is what made me think maybe you somehow uploaded a different copy of the score. Anyhow, I can confirm if I upload your score myself, it is similarly changed, and same if I try it myself. So, definitely seems to be a bug with the musescore.com backend.

I get that sometimes invisible notes can be useful for preventing certain staves from being hidden, but I don't understand why you'd be doing that here. For the first system, simply keeping the default option not to hide staves on the first system does the trick. For the other systems, I'm not understanding why you are doing this, though - you're actually making these staves show on all systems as far as I can see. Wouldn't it be simpler to just set them to never hide, if that's the intent?

Regarding spacers, I'm still not really following, but mostly it looks to me like you're adding space to fill the page. MuseScore now does this automatically, except you've disabled this in Format / Style / Score.

To me, removing all those invisible notes and instead setting the staff properties to never hide, and removing all spacers but instead tuning on the vertical justification, instantly improves the score, and it's a ton simpler also. You can also tweak the factor used to add move space around brackets or braced groups, which I think is what you're getting at regarding the guitar staves.

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• Mar 6, 2021 - 00:02

Well sure there is a problem. No one here is saying there isn't. They have you score, which is correct. Their rendition of it on the site is incorrect. Their rendition in the form of a PDF is incorrect. The download of the score must not be from their rendition, but from your original.
Perhaps you might upload a score with the symbols left justified and see what happens.

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• Mar 7, 2021 - 04:10

When I look at the "m" in Cm in your "as displayed in MS3" example, it is aligned with the 3rd string of the fret. In the "As displayed in Webpage" example, the "m" is over the 1st string. Visually, that is a couple of millimeters, maybe 3. But I understand your point. Your point is that there should be NO difference. In your examples, the fonts for the chords are also slightly different, so the kerning is going to be different. So, it isn't JUST the alignment.
As long as we are talking about differences between MS3 and the website, how about the fonts. They are different between the program and the website also. I mean the fonts you write, not the element fonts. Like titles, subtitles, footnotes, etc. I don't know what font is used on the website, but they are slightly different looking than the font I use on the score both in type and size.

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