Share command suggestion
Perhaps a criticism of my systems or the way I work, but I try to avoid using any form of cloud storage.
However I do have several machines, and quite often I want to move work from another. Mostly I do this by emailing copies of files to myself - which works fine for small files. For larger files I can use a tool such as WeTransfer.
Many tablet system apps (e.g iOS apps) now have a Share feature built in which allows one to send to email. Something like this could be useful for the desktop version of MuseScore as it would avoid the need to save each score, then dip out of MS, then send the file using email, or the Share on the file in the OS.
While that is not in itself too difficult, because of the screen estate that MS takes up, switching out of MS into the OS interface and back is not as easy as it might be and takes a little while 10-20 seconds, rather than almost instantaneous.
Comments
MuseScore's 'share' feature is File > Save online. No more is needed.
But yes, this is using a cloud-like approach. I can't seen anything bad in that though.
I'm also using my scores on multiple machines, and I am personnaly using box.com as my cloud. GoogleDrive, Microsoft's OneDrive, DropBox, etc. are other valid choices. They all allow for automatic synchronization accross multiple devices and operating systems
Another is simply a USB Thumb drive or SD-Card, and using that as the default location to store MuseScore files. That does exclude iOS devices though...
In reply to MuseScore's 'share' feature… by Jojo-Schmitz
>>>>MuseScore's 'share' feature is File > Save online. No more is needed.
I thnk that is where I disagree with you. Sure, I use USB sticks, SSDs and SD cards, but they're a faff nowadays. I even transfer quite large files - up to 100 Mbytes nowadays via either WeTransfer or email in order to save me having to plug in a memory stick, save, then unplug, then walk the 15 or so metres to another machine and plug in the hardware then retrieve the file.
I have an aversion to cloud storage because I don't know exactly what each cloud "provider" is going to do with my system, and I don't want arbitrary bits of my desktop reappearing on other machines - even if they are ones which I own and use. I'm happy enough to use email because the assumption I make is that anyone in the world is able to read my email, so I only send out email including information and data which I'm prepared to share with the world.
I just don't trust cloud providers to keep all my data secure, and not to compromise anything on my machines.
I have seen this happen, and other people have reported this too, though admittedly not with anything too terrible. For example, music tracks which appear on other hardware devices even though they've never been connected together - and no permission has been given for this occur. If you look hard enough you'll find that that kind of activity has been reported and has caused problems for some users.
I do sometimes use Box. I avoid Dropbox like the plague, though others have sent me files in Dropbox. I use Google drive sometimes. What I don't like is these systems trawling through my system etc.
Also, using cloud storage does increase network traffic - so if one is paying per megabytes uploaded/download that's not good. OK - most providers don't charge much nowadays, but ....
In reply to >>>>MuseScore's 'share'… by dave2020X
Email is a cloud service too, in essence. You can never know what your email provider does with and to the data you sent. Why would you trust an email provider but not a cloud provider? Esp. if end-to-end encryption is offered?
In reply to Emailing is a cloud service… by Jojo-Schmitz
I agree with that too, but there is a difference. When I send out an email - I thought I'd already made it clear - that as far as I'm concerned anybody in the world can see it. I know that most people won't but equally I assume that anybody and everybody will see it.
That's why I don't email all my private data, such as financial records, or future plans - and I'm sure many others don't too.
The default settings on some cloud based systems are not helpful for privacy. For example - and I don't know exactly what the situation is - in recent versions of MacOS Apple will "save" any document on a desktop to its cloud. My point there is that the end user then has to be aware of this possibility, and that kind of action effectively makes desktops useless for safeguarding private data. People will then suggest that "you can always turn that off", or some other such thing, but in practice it becomes too complicated, and people are sometimes unaware of the changes which companies which provide software make over time.
We can see that with more recent issues regarding Zoom and screen sharing. It is very hard to avoid having parts of one's screen not shared with others in a Zoom session, and I've seen this with others too. I always try to start off with a very blank desktop (I use an app called Project Desktops to clear it before a Zoom session) so that others can't see my emails or other documents. However sometimes one wants to show things, and then it is clear that other snippets of information are visible to others - even just email notifications. I have seen this on the screens of other people who are trying to deliver Zoom presentations. Sometimes just trying to get Zoom sharing to work at all accidentally exposes other parts of one's workstation to others.
For me the default should be that nothing is visible to anyone else, or shared, unless I as a user am aware of that. Oh - and yes - I am aware that Apple has adverts suggesting that it keeps people's data safe .... but check whether Apple has ever had its servers hacked, and also where Apple keeps a lot of its data - probably AWS.
Sorry this isn't about music or MuseScore, but it does perhaps help to explain why I think an explicit Share feature in MuseScore might be useful, and why I don't want to rely on other cloud or sharing systems.
In reply to I agree with that too, but… by dave2020X
File > Save online is an explicit way of sharing.
As is storing on your device in a folder that is synced with some cloud. The latter could be end-to-end encrypted for some cloud provilders (and as such not readable for enxone but you and/or the peaple you share them with, explictly), the former won't, you'd have to trust musescore.com to respect the privacy settings (and the staff members and/or their algorithms do see your scores, they can even mark them as copyright violations, even if marked private)
In reply to File > Save online is an… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for this - I can see it now and I'm exploring further. I don't necessarily trust any storage or communications provider, and I know of people who use their own encryption at each end even of a supposedly secure link for exactly that reason.
I think you have let slip something about copyright and MuseScore staff members, though I'm not particularly bothered myself.
In the UK the major communications provider (BT) was found to have been "reading" data transferred over its networks and eventually fined after an investigation. So it does happen.
From what you are suggesting I can use my Box.com account, and set it up with Save Online. Is there also a corresponding Open Online command - or do I have to rely on OS features to get that set up? If so, why only address the issue at one end of the transfer link?
Nevertheless, thanks again for this.
In reply to Thanks for this - I'm… by dave2020X
Box.com and Save online are not related to one another at all. Save online goes to musescore.com, period.
I didn't let (accidetially) slip something reg. copyright and musescore.com (staff members or algorithms), this actualy happened to me, on several occasions, several songs. None of which had ever been publicly visible.
Saving into a local folder that happens to be setup for synchronization with box.com (or any of the other cloud providers) is different from that. Opening and saving scores are done locally, totally transparent to the MuseScore program. The syncing to the cloud and from there to your other devices is done automagically under the covers and in the background.
Google even has in their Terms and Conditions that they do look at the content of GoogleDrive files IIRC.
In reply to Box.com and Save online are… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for the further clarification.
So Save Online is specific to MuseScore.com and presumably needs an account. That should be made clear. Very clear. It should also be made clear that the scores stored in that way might be inspected even if private.
That might also preclude - legitimately - basing music on other works, as at some point there might need to be fragments of working which are taken from other pieces, and later adapted. If I do this on my own machine and eventually something emerges which is not the same as the piece on which it might have been based, then in many jurisdictions no offence would have been committed. If I use an online storage system where private data is read - even in the case of Musescore - which you have mentioned - then presumably one might be "had" for work in progress, and even if the "offence" was detected outside the jurisdiction of the originator and there was no intent to subvert the rights of anyone originally connected with a piece on which a piece might have been based.
I would submit that many composers might have fallen foul of this kind of inspection if there really had been a kind of electronic "thought police" when they were writing.
It's precisely this sort of issue which I really am concerned about. In the case of BT which I mentioned earlier, it was "reading" users emails from other providers, and then approaching customers either to persuade them not to switch provider, or to offer them another deal, something which the UK regulators decided was not fair. In the case of Google having it in its T&Cs that it will/may do that - again that is precisely what I am concerned about. As far as I am concerned Google does not have a right to my data, but I accept that it may look anyway, and also for the usual disclaimer "as is required by law ... etc." Again, that's why I would not write or make any statements which I would not make publicly and put those on external providers storge systems. Apple makes it a condition in its newer OS versions EULA that it is requirement that some form of cloud access is "required" - but that doesn't make it a good thing.
It's that sort of "requirement" which means that I will keep as much of my data really private as I can, unless I just don't care. I am not going to put my bank details up on a site simply in order to avoid a 10-20 metre walk between my machines, but regarding notes and MuseScore files which are just work in progress for me, do I really care? Until a few minutes ago I really didn't - and probably still don't!
I do know that major companies do examine data - and for me this is really a big issue, even though I doubt whether anyone is really interested in the small notes I make or my peculiar snippets of music. Many people are completely unaware of the security and privacy issues.
To revert briefly back to the topic in hand - firstly I'd reiterate that my original suggestion was not unreasonable, given the constraints on cloud storage you have pointed out, and secondly that it now looks as though if I do want to use cloud storage I'd have to do that at the OS level - in order to use Dropbox or Google Drive, or Box - which is exactly the sort of thing that the Share operations in most iOS apps actually do, and the point of my original suggestion.
In reply to Thanks for the further… by dave2020X
See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/share-scores-online, that makes if very clear that you need an account.
As you do for any other cloud service BTW
Then there are muscscore.com's community guidelines, terms of service, etc.
Similar 'fine print' exists for all cloud services. And for email services too...
Maybe a plugin could do this if it can call the API of your mail client. Email sharing could, of course, be used to send a score to other people, not just to self, and would be a useful feature.
In reply to Maybe a plugin could do this… by yonah_ag
That might work indeed
I don't understand your request at all.
I have read your other posts and you:
-don't have a personal NAS
-don't want to use physical media such as USB
-don't want to use general available share space on Internet (dropox)
-don't want to use dedicated share space (musescore.com)
Then ... what kind of magic do you hope to use to share your files??
Perhaps there is another way but I don't see at all which one you mean
In reply to I don't understand your… by frfancha
eMail
See original post, "Many tablet system apps (e.g iOS apps) now have a Share feature built in which allows one to send to email. Something like this could be useful for the desktop version of MuseScore".
In reply to eMail by yonah_ag
Yes - good to see someone's keeping up. I agree. Thank you.
I don't particularly like a lot of tablet features - such as the files tied to apps, but I have found that I use the Share feature quite a lot now. It's also an inbuilt feature of MacOS, so you might ask - "why is it needed in MuseScore?", but the main reason for me would be to save time. The MuseScore screen (yes - I do have a 27 inch display) takes up virtually all the screen space, and switching in and out of windows to do the Share via email takes more time than is ideal. [Save to desktop file. Switch windows. Command Click on file - then share to Email in MacOS, then reenable the MS window]
Re - do I have a NAS - well as it happens I do - several, but they're not functioning at the moment. One died on me, and I've never actually reinstalled its replacement. Also, even if I do have NAS systems, I do not have to connect these to the outside world, and I don't. Some others who have had personal NAS systems have had failures.
It was not apparent to me at all until I initiated this earlier today that there is an online feature in MuseScore, but then it was not obvious that it was tied to the Musescore.com site, and that I'm supposed to read loads of small print. Just because sites try to impose conditions doesn't mean that those are fair, or even reasonable - but of course that's just my opinion. It certainly wasn't obvious to me what is going on.
I don't see why if one wants to do Save Online that couldn't be to any third pary site of one's choice - rather than a default at Musescore.com - even if that is relatively benign. That however, doesn't conflict with my views, as I have always written that I don't intend to share anything "online" even "privately" - if I'm not prepared for everyone in the world to see it. People with a journalistic frame of mind might now try to twist that statement in other ways which I definitely do not intend.
In reply to Yes - good to see someone's… by dave2020X
One of the nice features of sharing online is that you can choose to make scores public for other Musescorers to enjoy, or private for you only. It is also good as a cloud based backup for your scores. Saving online is tightly integrated with your desktop score and allows playback online and in Android/iOS; not something that other cloud sites offer.
I understand your concerns with cloud storage but at least with music scores there should be nothing confidential. Be careful with sign-up to musescore.com as it is easy to opt for a Pro account free trial by accident. A regular user account is totally free account and still allows you to upload and download scores.
In reply to One of the main features of… by yonah_ag
Thanks - I'm aware of some of the issues. I have been doing a running battle with those who think that MuseScore.com and MuseScore.org are/are not, the same thing, plus some of the issues re charging.
It's hopefully not deliberate - but there is a lack of transparency IMO. I have been sent a view that to get a free subscription that a route is to let a Pro subscription lapse - which may not be possible - or deliberately cancel it!
My latest concern is how do I remove a score which I've uploaded to Musescore.com? I've just done that inadvertently - there doesn't seem to be a remove or delete score. That's surely got to be possible.
Once I've done that I'll put up the version I really intended in the first place.
I think if you read comments in various other places that the upload to Musescore.com isn't really intended as a backup facility, though obviously it can be used in that way. I think if you don't rely on it 100%, and/or load up huge scores, it'll be fine.
In reply to Thanks - I'm aware of some… by dave2020X
A free subscription is available up front, it's a real option offered by MS with no strings attached. I think that the site confusion is by design because there have been so many complaints about it with no improvements, therefore it must suit MS.
You can delete scores by signing into to your .com account.
(MS online is my secondary level back for scores - but thanks for the reminder)
In reply to A free subscription is… by yonah_ag
Some people are very defensive about the MS confusion. I think that it may be deliberate, or others are just blinkered.
I don't think I'm the only one complaining - or at least raising this as an issue, but for a site based on music there seem to be a lot of deaf ears :-)
Re deleting scores, seems the way to go is to let them go up as Private, then select them and delete them with the pop-up (three dots) menu which you have highlighted. My issue arose as I was in the process of uploading a score which I realised was not what I wanted, and I wanted to kill it then and there.
In reply to Some people are very… by dave2020X
Haha! Yes, there are definitely "deaf ears". I think that it is deliberate but can't figure out why. It is a source of confusion for new users.
Once a score is uploaded you can make changes in desktop and re-upload them to the same online score, then make it public when it's ready - no need to delete unless it's not for public view.
In reply to Some people are very… by dave2020X
Many musicians are deaf or almoast deaf. And when they come from a company like Ultimate Guitar, where the motto is "Play it fucking loud", even more so ;-)
In reply to Many musicians are deaf or… by Jojo-Schmitz
:-)
In reply to :-) by yonah_ag
And yes, there have been very many complaints about this source of confusion and since years, so those being constantly ignored or denied speaks volumes about whether this is deliberate...
In reply to Thanks - I'm aware of some… by dave2020X
Deleting a score:
I tend to upload scores as private whilst they're in progress and then just switch them to public.
In reply to eMail by yonah_ag
Mobile Apps do this by email because they have no choice, there is no simple shared file system they can access like a computer has. it's completely unnecessary for computer applications to duplicate what your ODS already provides for free.
Regarding cloud services, just because one particular cloud service happens to share your desktop by default shouldn't make you avoid all cloud services. If you have the technical knowledge to worry about such things and be willing to go to great lengths to avoid the potential problems, then you should have the skills to read the documentation for any given cloud service to learn how it works and how to make sure only the files you want shared get shared. Again, it really shouldn't be the job of each application to reproduce functionality that is already provided for your by others. Things work much better when each application focuses on its own task and knows can integrate with the services provided by others.