Ctrl+Shift+Del (full measure rest command) vs regroup rhythms?
Just wondering if anyone can explain why "full measure rest" as well as "regroup rhythms" are needed as separate commands?
It seems to me "full measure rest" does the same thing (providing the measure only contains rests) except with an obvious improvement of preserving text/fermatas etc. attached to the original rests (even if they're part way through the measure). But why shouldn't regroup rhythms do the same?
Alternatively, why doesn't "full measure rest" remove the notes in the measure? (but then it's the same as just regular 'delete'!)
Comments
They do very different things, even if there is overlap. Full measure rest does that and that only, and has been around for years because it's the most direct way to get that result in the cases where it doesn't happen automatically (cases involving measures with actual duration differing from actual, cases where you want a measure rest in voice 2, etc). Removing notes would be disastrous, that's not what this command is for at all. Merely for converting duration rests into full measures rests or for entering them directly in note input mode.
Regroup rhythms does happen to create measure rests, sure, but it also completely rewrite the measure to fix beaming errors and other problems, but in the process, it may alter non-standard rhythms one notation and wants to preserve. It would not be good to force people to use regroup rhythms just to get full measures rests, nor would it be good to remove the ability to regroup rhythms when desired.
In reply to They do very different… by Marc Sabatella
So you use full measure rest on a range of a measures, some of which may not be empty? In that case I see the value (e.g. you could select the whole score and apply it). Does it work on a per voice level too?
Update: confirmed this, so yes, the command is useful if you select measures that have one voice with all rests while other voices have notes, and useful if you select ranges of multiple measures, some of which contains notes and others that don't.
But what about my other query - is there a good reason "regroup rhythms" deletes fermatas/staffs etc. but not "full measure rest"?
In reply to So you use full measure rest… by Dylan Nicholson1
The full measure rest command is much simpler, it really just changes the duration of a single rest. Regroup rhythms possible rewrites all chords and rests in a measure. In principle it should keep markings it can, but no doubt cases exist where specific markings are lost. I recall it used to be worse - lyrics and other markings on notes were lost as well.
Not sure what the use case for keeping markings attached to rests that are no longer present was meant to be, but there are indeed cases where that can be useful. There really should be a more direct way of doing that.
In reply to The full measure rest… by Marc Sabatella
Interesting - I'd tried the full measure rest command with just the 2nd 1/4 rest in a measure selected and it did nothing, so I'd assumed you had to select the whole measure.
But indeed when selecting just the first rest in a measure full of rests it does in fact convert it to a full measure rest.
The logic to preserve fermatas/text elements etc. is non-trivial but definitely useful, in fact it's one of the easiest ways to add chord symbols in a set rhythm over a full measure. Strangely regroup rhythms seems to preserve chord symbols but not other text elements (unless they're attached to the first rest).
I also noticed that if instead of "full-measure-rest" you use "rest-1" (Whole rest) when the first rest in a measure is selected, it works even if there are notes after it, which obviously then get deleted.
In reply to Interesting - I'd tried the… by Dylan Nicholson1
No. for chord symbols. normal entry works to enter anywhere in a measure - just hit Space to move to the next beat, etc. It's only text other than chord symbols - which is rather rare to need to enter mid-measure - that requires workarounds. But "rather rare" isn't the same as non-existent, of course. Dynamics would be useful, but really, only if you could also do this for hairpins.
Lengthening a rest or note always deletes what comes after to accomplish the lengthening, nothing special about the behavior described there.
In reply to No. for chord symbols… by Marc Sabatella
But why is "Whole rest" lengthening a rest but "Full measure rest" not?
Anyway my query was more around why it would make sense for "regroup rhythms" to delete markings/text elements etc. when the behaviour of "full measure rest" demonstrates it's not necessary.
It does, unfortunately, delete hairpins and any other lines attached to rests other than the first, which confirms what I had observed from earlier experiments - you can't have lines attached to hidden segments unfortunately. It would indeed be very useful. Though perhaps not so much hairpins in empty measures! (though even that might make sense if there are chord symbols etc.)
In reply to But why is "Whole rest"… by Dylan Nicholson1
The point of the full measure rest conversion command is to let you easily and safely convert duration rests to measure rests, regardless of whether there are also notes present. The notes are left alone, and it shouldn't ever change the cumulative duration of the converted rests at all. It would be disastrous if the command started eating notes - it is not a "change duration" command, just a "change how these rests are notated, in the special case of measures that have nothing but rests in a given voice" command.
Probably both commands should delete markings that no longer have a home, and there should be a more direct way of adding markings mid-measure. But until then, having both commands preserve them makes sense too.