parallel fifths and octaves
I'm not sure if this is the right plays for it is a question related to plugins. It would be nice to have a plugin that has 2 options w.r.t. parallel fifths and octaves: 1) a plugin that shows in red the notes that I should not enter, for they create parallel fifths or octaves. 2) showing which notes, once they have been entered, are inevitable chord notes if you want to avoid parallel fifths and octaves. This would be a beautiful tool to analyse pieces of composers like Bach and show which notes were put in place because of this rule. To do that, the user should be able to select a note, and the plugin will calculate of all the other notes that are there in the harmony and the harmony before that if the chosen note was inevitable or if there were also other possibilities. Also, of course, the user has to specify the number of different notes that the chord at that moment can have, 3, 4 or 5 (because it could be for example be a C a C7 or a C9 chord)
Comments
Do these plugins work for you:
For #1:
https://musescore.org/en/project/check-parallel-fifths-and-octaves
For #2:
https://musescore.org/en/project/check-harmony-against-actual-bach-chor…
In reply to Do these plugins work for… by Jm6stringer
https://musescore.org/en/project/check-parallel-fifths-and-octaves is very helpful, but it is not recommending in advance, but after you already inserted notes.
https://musescore.org/en/project/check-harmony-against-actual-bach-chor… is something else. There is no documentation that goes with it, so I don't have any idea what the plugin is based upon (apart from the fact that most chorals are probably heavily edited by his son CPE, see https://lukedahn.wordpress.com/2016/07/22/correcting-bachs-parallel-fif…
)
Plugins can't do things you don't also can do manually.
Showing shadow notes during note entry is not possible with the plugin API
In reply to Plugins can't do things you… by jeetee
Okay, but showing it as text in a menu could be a good alternative.
Let's say I made a 8 part motet. I wrote a harmony on beat 4 that is an F chord. Now I press some shortcut and a menu appears, asking me to what chord I'm going: a chord of 3, 4 or 5 voices? I say 3, because I want to go to C major. The menu gives the possibilities for each voice. If nothing is entered yet, it would be c-e-g- for all notes. But every time I enter a note, this could change.
So it doesn't have to be a shadow note, it could be a list of options in a menu. In a 4 part context for example it could start like this:
part 1: c e g
part 2: c e g
part 3: c e g
part 4: c e g
Enter some notes and it could give:
part 1: e
part 2: c e
part 3: c e
part 4: c e g
In reply to Okay, but showing it as text… by Derk van der Veen
So, you want a plugin that writes the music for you. In 16th century counterpoint class we learned all the rules about voice leading and chord progressions. And there are many. So many that you can sit down and write entire pieces following just the rules, without ever hearing the result until you are done. And the results are perfectly acceptable. So what. That's not what composition is about.
In reply to So, you want a plugin that… by bobjp
No, I don't want a plugin that writes music for me. I want a plugin that saves me time, that's what computers and plugins are made for.
In reply to Okay, but showing it as text… by Derk van der Veen
I think that if you're at the point where all notes are listed and you have to select which chord you're going to and then enter notes; that there is likely little value to such a plugin over just entering the notes...
In reply to I think that if you're at… by jeetee
Have you tried checking all the parallel fifths and octaves when writing a 8 part piece, like a Concerto Grosso or a motet? It would save lots of time and let you concentrate on creativity.
If you re-enter all the notes of a piece of Bach, and you try to discover in what order he worked, both tools could help to understand and give objective evidence about in which order he composed his different voices. So it would also be helpful for musicologists. I think this kind of doing your own research this way is often more rewarding than reading books about this subject.
In reply to Have you tried checking all… by Derk van der Veen
I have, and used the verify plugin mentioned in this thread for it.
In reply to I have, and used the verify… by jeetee
But hey, it's not because I don't think such a plugin wouldn't have much added value compared to the effort required for writing it that someone else can't think otherwise and pick up on your request.
In reply to Have you tried checking all… by Derk van der Veen
Or it could stifle creativity. Don't forget that the "rules" are meant to explain how music from a time period was written. Not to dictate how music is to be written now. What if the acceptable notes don't quite fit what your creativity wants. Then you have to go back and change previous work, causing more problems. Or sacrifice a certain aspect of your creativity. Bach wrote the way he did because it was how he was trained. It was in his head and all he knew. And he was darn good at it. Now there are so many different ways to write. Of course, we want to tend to avoid fifths and octaves. There are plenty of composers who use them here and there.
Some years back, some university professors wrote a program that could write music using all the rules and stylistic traits common to various composers. The program produced convincing works in their styles.
I don't doubt the value of such a plugin. Accept that part of the appeal of composing, for me, is doing the work to make sure the music reflects me as much as possible. After all these years, it still amazes me that my computer will playback something that I write in a mostly decent manner. But as far as composing goes, I find it difficult to buy into the "quick and easy is better" mantra. I want the software to support my creativity, not dictate it. But that's just me.
In reply to Or it could stifle… by bobjp
You wrote:
Some years back, some university professors wrote a program that could write music using all the rules and stylistic traits common to various composers. The program produced convincing works in their styles.
Can you give me a link to that information? Would be very interesting for me.
In reply to You wrote: Some years back,… by Derk van der Veen
This was before there were such things as links. It was a story on some radio show. It was interesting, indeed. I never heard anything about it again. I got the impression that they did it more just to see if it could be done, than anything else.
In reply to You wrote: Some years back,… by Derk van der Veen
Check out for example https://genius.com/albums/David-cope/Bach-by-design-computer-composed-m… and/or https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Z3N58NSEq4 for a news item in 2015 covering this.
In reply to Check out for example https:… by jeetee
Thanks. I know the AI-projects, which I consider a complete failure (which was predictable). Mr Bob was talking about a program that composed according to historic rules. That would have been interesting.
In reply to Thanks. I know the AI… by Derk van der Veen
A brief Google search comes up with David Cope as the creator of EMI software.