Cannot select new instrument
I'm created a simple bass line score and when I try to change the default piano to bass the dialog appears but I cannot scroll the list of bass instruments on the right. The cursor just disappears when moved down the list with down arrow and there is no scroll bar..
PS it would be really useful if we could attach a clip board image here rather than having to save to file first!
| Attachment | Size |
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| Musescore bass bug.png | 293.87 KB |
Comments
OMG when I move the cursor to the right a scroll bar magically appears!
That is horrible hidden UI that I just discovered by accident and not a Windows UI standard. Please keep scroll bars visible and fix the key access.
Also You have acoustic bass listed. Is that an upright / string / double bass as I want? Or an acoustic bass guitar?
In reply to OMG when I move the cursor… by steveoreno
Report it on GitHub, https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/new/choose
In reply to Report it on GitHub, https:/… by Jojo-Schmitz
I would have done so but the musescore UI pointed me firmly here!
When I get more time....
In reply to I would have done so but the… by steveoreno
You don't need a scroll bar. That's what the Scroll Wheel on your mouse is for. Seems standard to me.
In reply to You don't need a scroll bar… by bobjp
@bobjp haha, but alternatives are there for a reason, including accessibility. Unfortunately, my muscle memory predates mouse wheels. Lol. Actually, I was using keyboard which is broken.
Also I like clicking above or below thumb for fast page scroll.
In reply to OMG when I move the cursor… by steveoreno
Scroll bars that appear on demand are actually quite common - for instance, it's that way in Chrome, which I'm using right now. Scroll wheel is, of course, the far simpler and even more standard method of scrolling.
Acoustic bass is the same as double bass, it just defaults to pizz instead of arco in accordance with typical jazz usage.
In reply to Scroll bars that appear on… by Marc Sabatella
@marc sabadell, fair point, the days of microsoft UI standards seem well over and UIs as a game of discovery are sadly well and truly in.
So no acoustic bass guitar voice? Also is called contrabass in bowed but is same instrument!. At least I can pluck (pizz) or bow (arco) mine. And tap too lol. Is a rather confusing set of terms IMHO.
In reply to @marc sabadell, fair point,… by steveoreno
Keep in mind, MuseScore isn’t just for Windows, and indeed didn’t start there. Microsoft doesn’t dictate what programs should do in macOS or Linux. And Microsoft constantly updates their UI guidelines in the face of changing technologies and new design trends, as does Apple, as do the various other standardization bodies. Just be cause things typically worked one way in Windows in the 90’s doesn’t mean that makes sense forever on all systems.
As for acoustic bass guitar, the General MIDI standard does not define an acoustic bass guitar sound, no, but presumably a web search would turn up third party Soundfonts and VST instruments you could use.
And yes, music terminology can be confusing. It has a far longer history than computer UI design and far less standardization :-)
In reply to Keep in mind, MuseScore isn… by Marc Sabatella
Oh, no I was never suggesting that. But "when in Rome....". I have developed much cross platform software, from the 80s on. And always followed the platform conventions where possible. Sure UI conventions change over time, and even OS developers vary in their own programs. Tsk.
I'm personally not a fan of having no affordances and getting users to explore. But do accept it's popular these days (are all devs keen gamers). After all I've seen hidden scroll bars in Gnome etc for years, but have been able to change that. It's just not expected on Windows.
Anyway let's move on.
As for instruments. Are all those listed GM? I had not realised that Theres more that the sound a stake in a score program, surely?. But on reflection it makes some sense if you provide play experience. There's a lot of plucked bass and few bowed. It's years since I looked a GM but don't recall all those.
Anyway, the bug is no scrolling with keyboard navigation of a list that does not fit the viewport.
And I think there should be a preference for non hiding scrollbars, if not simply following familiar windows conventions. Fun fact: The scroll bar also provides info on size of list and position in list which is relevant for keyboard use.
Thanks for your response.
In reply to Oh, no I was never… by steveoreno
Not sure what video games have to do with anything, but for the record, the person who did most of the design work for MU4 comes from a background in professional music / audio productin software where he is pretty well-known, but also as it happens previously worked as a one of the lead designers for Microsoft.
As for General MIDI it determines which sounds are available in a standard soundfont like MS Basic. But as for which instruments you can notate for, the sky's the limit, and that's why MuseScore provides so many more options than just those in the GM list. I'm not sure if you have some specific question about this?
Anyhow, I can confirm the bug where keyboard navigation - while entirely functional in terms of selecting the elements in the list - does not also update the viewport. Please report this to the developers by opening an issue on GitHub.
In reply to Keep in mind, MuseScore isn… by Marc Sabatella
Just to clarify, "acoustic" bass IS listed under plucked, not bowed and some people called contrabass acoustic, when others mean acoustic bass guitar. So as you say confusion is built into the provided list. Maybe it could be clarified in your UI, but not if defined by the voices you use so out of your control. At least we can audition. I mainly ment to point out the confusion I experienced on first impressions.
In reply to Just to clarify, "acoustic"… by steveoreno
As it's Christmas eve I want to say happy Christmas to the @team and thanks for a fantastic product.
My first real task in 4.0 hit a few bends in the road but was successful.
In case it's useful for improving user journeys here's an outline of my experience- but if not then no problem at all.
Happy Christmas one and all.
In reply to As it's Christmas eve I want… by steveoreno
Sounds like you had not added an actual bass to your score but rather a piano. The actual bass instruments all do the transposition. And yes, real life has a large number of basses, so MuseScore tries to reflect that.
The instrument list is navigable by keyboard; it just doesn't update the viewport as it does so (a bug, as noted). Of course, it's not a big deal with respect to accessibiltiy since a blind users dones't need the viewport to update as long as the navigation itself works, which it does. But also, blind users normally use the search feature as the more efficient way to find instruments, so they aren't commonly searching long lists anyhow.
In reply to Sounds like you had not… by Marc Sabatella
> Sounds like you had not added an actual bass to your score but rather a piano. The actual bass instruments all do the transposition.
yes, yes and yes, that is what I tried to explain.
> And yes, real life has a large number of basses, so MuseScore tries to reflect that.
Mow I discovered search I find even more! LOL. But Bass uke seems to be missing :)
> The instrument list is navigable by keyboard; it just doesn't update the viewport as it does so (a bug, as noted).
and reported on GitHub
> Of course, it's not a big deal with respect to accessibiltiy since a blind users dones't need the viewport to update as long as the navigation itself works, which it does.
Do bear in mind that many legally blind people have some vision - so is better to say "screen reader users!. Also we found many people with cognitive disabilities appreciate reading support, though I've not heard of any using a screen reader for navigation.
> But also, blind users normally use the search feature as the more efficient way to find instruments, so they aren't commonly searching long lists anyhow.
That's a great feature - I prefer the flat list though plucked / arco gets lost from the names. Searching 'bass' is a big list, Eg Bass recorder. I an;t believe all those are GM as previously mentioned.
Anyway thanks for all the discussion
In reply to > Sounds like you had not… by steveoreno
Indeed, partially sighted users who navigate by keyboard but don't use screen reader will impacted by the failure of the viewport to update. But, are you sure there is an issue for this on GitHub? I'm not seeing it.
Anyhow, indeed, as I said, the instrument list contains tons of instruments above and beyond the General MIDI. I was merely explaining why the sound for the "acoustic bass" instrument is in fact an acoustic bass sound and not a guitar sound of some sort.
In reply to Just to clarify, "acoustic"… by steveoreno
I'm not aware of any context in which "acoustic bass" - without the word "guitar" - is commonly understood to imply a guitar. Probably somewhere in the world exists such a sub-culture, but it's clearly not as big as the jazz world is, and since "acoustic bass" is definitely universally understood in that context, the acoustic bass guitar would need to be listed separately. Since I don't see that listed, feel free to open an issue on GitHub requesting it be added.
In reply to I'm not aware of any context… by Marc Sabatella
That's interesting as here in UK I've never heard acoustic used for a double bass either classical or jazz. Standup, Contrabass, String Bass and Upright, for sure.
Probably best to avoid genre specific names - eg bluegrass players sometimes call it a Bull Fiddle. :D
In reply to That's interesting as here… by steveoreno
"Acoustic bass" is the standard General MIDI name, and also a common name here in the birthplace of jazz. There is nothing else one could call it that would make half as much sense. As mentioned, "double bass" and the like would all imply the arco sound by default. The need for an instrument that defaults to pizz is the whole reason this entry was added to the instrument list many years ago.