How to write a symbol for diminished chord?
I'm looking for a simple way to write down a symbol for a diminished chord, that is D^7 that is crossed out with a slash. Any ideas?
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http://musescore.org/en/handbook/chord-name, type 'D-7b5' and when using cchords_sym.xml, you'll get what you're asking for ?
In reply to http://musescore.org/en/handb by Jojo-Schmitz
Not exactly. I want to have it like in this picture:
http://www.mu-sig.de/Theorie/Tonsatz/grafik/grafik2/2232-2.gif
In reply to Not exactly. I want it to by ph82
OK, this seems not to be possible right now. Marc Sabatella might know better?
In reply to Not exactly. I want it to by ph82
I've never seen that before - what's the context in which that notation is used? Looks kind of more like some sort of analysis (like Roman numeral analysis but different).
Anyhow, I think you'd need to find a font that supports that and then possibly add the symbols as text.
The usual symbol for diminished in ordinary chord symbols, btw, is a small circle (which you get by typing the letter "o" or the abbreviation "dim").
In reply to I've never seen that before - by Marc Sabatella
BTW, from what little I or Google can make out of the German in the text this seems to have come from (http://www.mu-sig.de/Theorie/Tonsatz/Tonsatz00.htm), it does not look to me like this is actually meant to indicate a diminished chord. Looks more like it is indicating Dominant function, but modified somehow. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyhow, the notation in this book is definitely "analysis" and not "chord symbols" in the usual / MuseScore sense at all. Chord symbols are things like Cmi, Gma7, E7b9, etc - used by jazz and pop musicians as a basis for constructing accompaniment or improvisation. This is totally different from the sort of analysis used in this text.
In reply to BTW, from what little I or by Marc Sabatella
Indeed looks like the D does stand for Dominate, not for the note with that name
In reply to http://musescore.org/en/handb by Jojo-Schmitz
i do not think MS caters for that manner of chord writing.
You might however try with staff text instead of chord symbols and see how far you can acomplish what you are after.
In reply to i do not think MS caters for by aeLiXihr
I think the OP is talking about the 1/2 dim. symbol.
In reply to I think the OP is talking by xavierjazz
No, check out the image he posted:
Definitely something *very* different.
In reply to No, check out the image he by Marc Sabatella
I have never seen any of those "changes". What is the system?
In reply to I have never seen any of by xavierjazz
See http://www.mu-sig.de/Theorie/Tonsatz/Tonsatz00.htm. How's your German? :-)
I think it's some sort of textbook on harmonic analysis, and D and T stand for dominant and tonic. That is, the symbols are probably not meant to be read by performing musicians but used when analyzing an existing piece of (classical) music.
In reply to No, check out the image he by Marc Sabatella
it is the 2nd inversion of a chord that is called Hardverminderd in Dutch.
I could not find the English name for it
(root, Maj3, Dim5)
one finds it on the II in a minor scale with raised IV and typicaly leads to V
(2nd, #4rth, 6th)
In reply to it is the 2nd inversion of a by aeLiXihr
as my teacher of music theory would put it:
"Show my one example in the literature!"
I don't think even Wagner has used this interesting combination!
In reply to as my teacher of music theory by danchricob2
Well, i guess you will have study some more...
http://m.hooning.myahk.nl/analyse/analyse-Strauss-Wagner-Debussy/Straus…
http://m.hooning.myahk.nl/harmonie/harmonie-voorbeelden/gealtereerd_str…
You know what the german alphabet goes like?
a,b,h,c,d ...
In reply to Well, i guess you will have by aeLiXihr
Rather A, H, C, D,
Or even As, A, Ais, B (not Hes), H, His, Ces, C, Cis, Des, D
It is not a symbol that MuseScore recognises.
You can create something similar by entering the text as Lyrics. You cannot get a D with an oblique slash through it (such as you have indicated) but you can get a D with a horizontal bar in it by pressing [AltGr][Shift]d (and this is similar to the appearance on the website I have seen).
Just to clear things up: As I've studied the subject, there are four basic ways to write down chord symbols (chronologic order):
Generalbass - figured bass - absolut (key is given)
Stufentheorie - roman numeral Analysis - relativ (easy to transpose)
Funktionstheorie - diatonic function Analysis - relativ (easy to transpose)
Jazz-Harmonielehre - Chord function - absolut (key is given)
to get used to the special ways of the syntax of any one of them, please contact the music teacher of your local higher education School.
the Problem we are discussing about is the following:
the diatonic function consists of three main functions: T (tonic), S (subdominant), and D (dominant).
the Jazz-harmonics consist of twelve keynotes: C, C#/Db, D, D#/Eb, ...
The numbers in the upper right corner indicate additional intervals in both systems, whereas the phenomenon "missing key note" only appears in the diatonic Analysis, and practically only in the form: Dominant with added 7, 5 in the bass without the key note (the Expression is a speciality of this System created by Hugo Riemann, but the chord itself is very frequently used in the Music of Renaissance, barock, classic and romantic). It's expressed by crossing out the letter with this diagonal line this blog is about.
Let's conclude that I, too, would be thankful to have such a handy symbol to use in MuseScore.
Note that at the HfM (Hochschule für Musik Franz Liszt Weimar) we learn to play chords reading any of the presented systems!
I actually did this in the first work I uploaded. (Yesterday, I'm new, but I'm liking MuseScore better than Forte and a LOT better than Finale Notepad.)
Before entering chords in a score:
Select Style - Edit Text Style - Chord Name
Then select a Unicode Font (I used Arial Unicode MS)
You can then save the style in the Select Style menu.
This will allow you to use "Slash Zero" Ø (U+2205) which can be copied and pasted.
The chord I entered was F#Ø/A.
Looks fine in the output.
Alternately, right click on a chord name, select "Text Properties," Change the font to a Unicode font, then check "apply to all elements of same type." Then you can copy and paste Ø where you need it without the chord name looking different than all the others. I haven't had the greatest of luck with "apply to all elements of same type," but it seems to work most of the time.
If you're stuck on "Way cool ASCII font" for your chord names it won't work, must be a Unicode font.
In reply to I actually did this in the by SeasonPsalt
I actually looked better at your symbol, I've never seen it but maybe the same Unicode procedure using Đ (U+0189) would work. But I have NO idea what you would do for F#Ø/A. I don't think there is a "slash F." You could use a character like "/" in a text box and drag it and drop it over your chord name, and people like me would have no idea what to play.
In reply to I actually did this in the by SeasonPsalt
BTW< there is no need to do to all that trouble just to enter a half-diminished symbo, and indeed, it is counterproductive - any given glyph you add that happens to look like a half-diminished symbol may not actually be recognized as one when it comes to MusicXML export etc.
Instead, simply type "0" (zero), and it will automatically be recognized and rendered as a half-diminished symbol. Also "t" or "^" for the triangle that is sometimes used for major chords.
In reply to BTW< there is no need to do by Marc Sabatella
"0" displays a diminished symbol, not 1/2 dim. (03dc014).
What is the shortcut for 1/2 Dim.? (Which may describe my state!)
:)
In reply to "0" displays a diminished by xavierjazz
"0" (number zero) does half-diminished. "o" (lower case letter "O") does diminished.
In reply to "0" (number zero) does by Marc Sabatella
That is not my experience. "0", "o" and "O" all produce a diminished symbol.
In reply to That is not my experience. by xavierjazz
Is this in a score created from scratch using the default "Standard" or "Jazz" chord symbol styles.? It might not work in a score that uses a "Custom" chord symbol style, depending on the specific custom style you are using. See Style / General / Chord Symbols, the radio buttons at the top. I guess the old 1.3-style custom chord styles don't work here. Old scores that used those files won't be able take advantage of all the new chord symbol features unless you switch over the new system. The "Jazz" style woulkd be what you want, I assume.
In reply to Is this in a score created by Marc Sabatella
I am trying to continue to develop arrangements - from piano score to Jazz quintet and now I am adding 2 more voices.
I had been working on a score from 1.3 where I had the style defined and applied, Real book changes, etc.
I open a new score and tried it, it worked. Thanks.
I notice the reload function is gone. I regret that. At this point I still need it.
I have a new issue I'll post.
In reply to I am trying to continue to by xavierjazz
If there is still something you need reload for, that's a bug. It was only ever a workaround for things that didn't take effect immediately, and there used to be lots of them. What are you finding you still need it for?
In reply to If there is still something by Marc Sabatella
http://musescore.org/en/node/44871
Just have a bit of trouble adapting. Thanks.
I have just tried entering diminished chord:
- select note
- [Ctrl+K]
- type 'c#dim7'
Output is exactly as in 3rd line - dim is not recognized.
Using MS 2.02 (f51dc11).
Simon
In reply to I have just tried entering by aum7
It is not exactly like in that 3rd line ("c#dim7") but "C♯dim7", the C (vs.. c) and the ♯ (vs. #) show that indeed that chord got recognized. And BTW another method to enter would be "c#o7" (and too result in "C♯dim7")
In reply to It is not exactly like in by Jojo-Schmitz
OK, it seems I expected too much, like writing 'c#dim7' to output 'C♯°7'. Mea culpa. Please forgive me.
But I checked input 'c#o7', and output is 'C♯o7' (small O-rion), while one (at least me) would expect 'C♯°7'.
Perhaps I am expecting too much again.
Best regards
Simon
In reply to OK, it seems I expected too by aum7
Hmm, I get a 'C♯dim7' when I enter 'c#o7'
In reply to Hmm, I get a 'C♯dim7' when I by Jojo-Schmitz
I forgot to tell - Style - General - Chord Symbols, Fretboard... Appearance = Standard.
In reply to I forgot to tell - Style - by aum7
Same here.
In Jazz style I get the superscript o
In reply to Hmm, I get a 'C♯dim7' when I by Jojo-Schmitz
Again, if you are editing a 1.3 score or otherwise using an obsolete or customized chord description file, the results are different from standard. But using the defaults in MuseScore 2.0 and beyond, entering "c#o7" gives you the following:
Note if your score started out imported from 1.3 or using an obsolete / customized chord description, merely changing to Standard won't completely eradicate the special things that the 1.3 file did. It will allow more chord symbols to be input than before, but ones that are "recognized" may be converted into the version that your original chord description file was designed to enforce.
In reply to OK, it seems I expected too by aum7
Yes, only the "Jazz" style uses the fancier formatting with superscripting etc:
In reply to I have just tried entering by aum7
To be clear - if the "#" you typed gets converted into a true sharp sign, the chord got recognized. Also if you typed a lower case root and it got capitalized, the chord got recognized. However, unlike 1.X, which forced you to type chord symbols a particular way, 2.X recognzies lots of different variations and displays them just as you typed them. So if you want to see C#dim7, type that. If you would rather see C#o7, just type that instead. Same for Cmin7 versus Cmi7 versus Cm7 versus C-7 - type whichever of these you like, they will all be recognzied and displayed just as you typed them (except for conversion of "#" to sharp sign, etc).
EDIT - this assumes you arer created a score from scratch in 2.X. If you re editing a score originally created in 1.3, then it will continue to behave more like 1.3, although with some differences as well.
In reply to To be clear - if the "#" you by Marc Sabatella
Quote:
"EDIT - this assumes you arer created a score from scratch in 2.X. If you re editing a score originally created in 1.3, then it will continue to behave more like 1.3, although with some differences as well."
Probably this is the cause. Consider this issue solved.
Simon
In reply to Quote: "EDIT - this assumes by aum7
OK, so you have the chord style file loaded?
In reply to OK, so you have the chord by Jojo-Schmitz
Not intentionally, I guess it is hard-coded into .mscz file?
Anyway, I created new MS 2 file, copied notes from old file into new file (would do it anyway, since original file got corrupted 30 min ago), and saved. Then tried 'c#o7' again and got 'C♯o7' - therefore a question arises - does above procedure (new file - copy-paste from old file - save) copies some other 'settings' from old file, like style?
Simon
In reply to Not intentionally, I guess it by aum7
Copy and paste should be fine. But see my comment above - taking a 1.3 file and then changing the style to Standard won't completely restore it to 2.0 defaults. Vestiges of the original chord description file will remain, especially with respect to any chords already present in the file.