Deleting & Inserting notes
I have just started using this wonderful piece of software. I have version 0.9.3 on my computer.
I have created a small song using MuseScore. Now, I want to make changes to it
- I want to delete a rest
- I want to delete a half-note and instead insert two quarter notes
- I want to change a quarter-note to a whole note
How can I achieve these?
I tried highlighting a specific note or rest and using the Edit->Cut menu option, but that did not help.
Any assistance will be much appreciated.
Vijay
Comments
> I want to delete a rest
Musescore does not work like this. MuseScore enforces that a measure is complete, always. So you can't "delete". And it's pretty sure you really don't want to delete a rest. You want to change it to a note probably. So select it. Go to note entry mode by pressing N. Choose a note lenght and press C or D or.... to enter a note.
> I want to delete a half-note and instead insert two quarter notes
The same you can't delete. So select the half, and click on the quarter note in the toolbar. You will have a quarter note and quarter rest. For the quarter rest see your previous question and my answer ;)
> I want to change a quarter-note to a whole note
Select it. Go to note mode (press N). Choose whole note (press 7). Choose your pitch. (C D etc...)
Read Note entry in the manual.
In reply to > I want to delete a by [DELETED] 5
I want to first say what a great tool MuseScore is (v0.95). I discovered it a few weeks ago and am very impressed with its features and interface,
That said, I'd like to return to the issues Vijay raised. I read your response, and the Note Entry page (though I'd already been there, and through most of the Handbook). But it really would be very helpful to be able to shift notes and rests around within a measure If you're composing at the keyboard, and I mean the computer keyboard, not a musical one, it becomes very frustrating when you want to rephrase a passage just a bit. What I end up doing is inserting/appending a new measure (or several in some cases) and totally re-entering the section in question, even though it is mostly the same as the original, Then I go back and delete the old one. This gets annoying after a while.
I understand that MuseScore enforces complete measures, which is fine and very helpful in its own way. But what if you could mark a measure (or several) for "floating" edit (basically insert mode), which would pad with rests at the end when you delete a note or rest, and remove rests at the end when you insert, possibly/optionally automatically inserting new measures if the notes overflow the selected measures? This would make it much more usable for those who are composing, rather than just transcribing something handwritten or otherwise set in stone.
Again, MuseScore is a really nice tool, and I appreciate your great efforts. Thanks.
In reply to Deleting/shifting notes/rests by bdortch
Hi.
I think it would be much easier to just re-phrase the actual notes..
For example:
in 4/4 time write 8 eighth notes.
Change timimg to 1 quarter and 6 eighths - Make sure you are in edit, not entry mode, select the 1st eiyghth - enter entry mode, select 1/4 duration and select the new note. Voila.
To insert a rest, select the note where you want the rest and select rest instead of note.
I hope this is clear.
Regards.
In reply to rephrase a passage by xavierjazz
I am having difficulty seeing how this example would apply to the current problem that i have. I need to insert a note in a different place from where the rest is that I want to get rid of. The superfluous rest is in the first half of the measure, but the note needs to be inserted after the last current note in the measure. When I try to move the vertical cursor to where I want the note, it skips to the next measure. If I try to drag the rest to the end of the measure, it stops half way. So if I click on that rest to replace it, the note will be in the wrong place. Is there a solution? Thanks.
In reply to Rephrase a passage by dscoyne
The solution is to rewrite the measure. You can't insert music in MuseScore. It works by replacing rests by notes.
The only way to insert is copy and paste.
In reply to The solution is to rewrite by [DELETED] 5
Yes, unfortunately you are apparently correct, but I am not sure how to completely rewrite an existing measure. I ran into this Catch 22 problem because that is what I tried to do. I needed to change the duration of a couple of eighth notes to dotted notes and sixteenth notes. But the program threw in a rest along the way. When I added a dot to the next-to-last note, instead of deleting the rest it had created, it deleted the last sixteenth note. This note is what I have been trying to replace to no avail.
So I guess I need to learn how to rewrite a measure. Any ideas would be welcome.
A lot of good work has been done on this program, but I think in its present state, the note entry part of it is much stronger than the editing part. A program that I used to scan this music from a paper lead sheet called Photoscore has a really neat editing feature in that it allows you enter whatever you want, and then alerts you when the timing of a measure is not correct. Something like this, as at least an option, would certainly make MuseScore less frustrating to work with..
Thanks for the help...............Don
In reply to The solution is to rewrite by dscoyne
In edit mode (not write mode - this is toggled via "n" on the keyboard) go to the 1st instance where the score is not right, select that note or rest by leftclicking once on it.
Then toggle into "write" mode. The cursor will appear ready to interpret your input. Now enter the proper note/rest combination until all is correct.
Exit "write" mode.
Save.
Regards,
Don
In reply to Hi Don by xavierjazz
Thanks. This by-the-numbers approach really helped me, the key being to go to the FIRST note problem. You definitely need to move from left to right, which I was not necessarily doing.
In reply to The solution is to rewrite by dscoyne
If you want to rewrite a full measure, select the measure, press "Ins" or go to Create -> Measure -> insert a measure
then use the new measure to rewrite the one you still see. When done, select the old measure and press Ctrl + Del to remove it.
In reply to If you want to rewrite a full by [DELETED] 5
Thanks. Totally logical.
In reply to The solution is to rewrite by dscoyne
I tried doing the rest-rewriting last night, and it's tricky. You have to start at the earliest point in the measure that's affected, and you have to keep switching between Edit and Entry modes a lot to avoid adding new notes while you're editing. Make the offending rest into the note you want next, then move forward and try to delete extra notes. It's a pain, but it works.
For those of us who are severely challenged by the task of notating a rhythm correctly, this program would be a lot more useful if you could input in a "timeless" manner and then assign duration to the notes afterwards. However, I suspect this would require changes to the very fundamentals of the app.
In reply to It's tricky by metaphorce
Could you post an example of what you mean? A score or graphic showing what you are starting with, and another showing what you tpwant to turn it into? It seems you are probably missing something pretty fundamental. One of the advanrages of the way MuseScore works is that it is never any more difficult to turn X into Y than it would be to enter Y in the first place. That's not always true of programs that use other input methods. So worst case is not as bad as other programs, but it doesn't always come down to the worst case, either - often the is an even more efficient way to turn X into Y than the already simple method of entering Y right on top of X. So again, if you post examples of wjat you mean, maybe we can help you see ehat you are misunderstanding.
In reply to Could you post an example of by Marc Sabatella
From the note you want to input or delete, cut to a convenient measure where you will make the timing adjustments. Paste the balance of the measures where you want them. Musecore will remeasure so you need to plan it first and make sure you get the result you want. Make a copy of the file before you start.
I think the secret is this. First, cut the whole part you want to move up and keep it in memory in the clipboard. That will leave you with empty measures for the length of the cut passage. Then delete the note and Musecore inserts a rest. Delete the rest and Musescore will hold that position while you paste your cut content in there. But be careful because you have to plan ahead. Find the shortest passage to cut and paste.
Thankfully Musecore won't automatically reconfigure and remeasure your whole piece just because you want to delete a few notes in a measure. What you have entered is cast in stone until you adjust it all with the cut and paste.
In reply to It's tricky by metaphorce
> For those of us who are severely challenged by the task of notating a rhythm correctly,
> this program would be a lot more useful if you could input in a "timeless" manner
> and then assign duration to the notes afterwards. However, I suspect this would
>require changes to the very fundamentals of the app.
Yes, the developers would pretty much have to scrap all the code and start over.
But a "timeless" mode that allows entry of a sequence of pitches and/or chords first, followed by a pass to give them durations, would be useful for MIDI entry. It would also have to let you easily toggle enharmonic spellings. This has been discussed, and the conclusion is that it might be done as a standalone program. But it's a lot of work, and a low priority, so MuseScore will go through a lot of whole number versions before it happens, if ever.
-- J.S.
In reply to > For those of us who are by John Sprung
Actually, I could imagine this sort of mode being integrated with the rest of MuseScore - a button you press that takes the contents of the current measure, loads it into a special window that let you do this sort of editing, then after performing the editing, the results would be copied and pasted back on top of the original contents of the measure. The existing note entry methods and data structures and so forth could remain unchanged - it would just be another mode added on top. Such a thing could even almost be done as a plugin, if the plugin architecture were a bit better about creating notes of different rhythms.
Still, whether it would be worth the effort remains debatable. It would surely take longer to develop than it would for any given user to simply get used to the way MuseScore currently works, which as I've said before, is on the whole more efficient than most alternatives.
In reply to Actually, I could imagine by Marc Sabatella
is, "How much should the program replace musical understanding?"
No program can really replace knowledge, and even though it may take a little work to understand rhythms, no program can replace that work.
Even if this "Stand alone" program were developed, the user STILL has to ultimately understand rhythm to get it right.
The request sounds a lot to me similar to what you can do with a loop on a drum sequencer where you can add "hits" individually until you get what you want. This is not really the aim of MuseScore as I understand it.
In reply to I think another aspect by xavierjazz
It really has nothing to do with musical understanding. It's a MIDI input enabler.
The issue is that with a MIDI keyboard it's quite easy to enter lots of pitches, both individual notes and chords, but devilish difficult to get them all timed within the critical tolerances that the computer would need. It would be obvious to a human reader that I'm very unlikely really to have wanted a whole note tied across the bar to a sixteenth, but coding that sort of thing would be a huge and likely very buggy task.
The idea is to let you put in a sequence of pitches, then do a second pass to assign the durations. You still have to know what durations you want. So in no way does it automate understanding out of the picture....
-- J.S.
In reply to I think another aspect by xavierjazz
The "aim" of an app is the intention of its designers, and is limited by their imaginations of how it might be used. Add more imaginations - Users, for example - and you are likely to discover more ways to use the app that are perfectly valid, and answer somebody else's need just as surely as the original intentions answered the designer's needs.
I am using MuseScore primarily to transcribe songs, at the moment. I am not creating the rhythm; I am not deciding what it 'should' be. I am trying to interpret what I hear into notes. If I enter the pitches and durations as I think they should be, and then play it back, I find out how well I was able to convert the rhythm I hear into notation. Not always that well, and I need to adjust it to get it right. I can use the program to correct it and learn from it, and keep correcting it until I get it right, until the playback matches the correct rhythm. That's what I need to do to be able to transcribe songs. Whether it falls within the original intentions of the app designers or not, it's a valid use of the program, and making that function easier would be a valuable extension of the app's abilities for many people. I suppose it depends on the generosity of the designers.
Those endowed with such excellent musical understanding that they can transcribe a rhythm accurately on first try have my admiration and envy. I have been playing music for 45 years on various instruments, but the correlation of rhythms with notation remains difficult for me. It'd be nice to have a tool to help get it right. No harm in asking, right?
In reply to How about, "Musescore can Improve Musical Understanding" ?? by metaphorce
> I have been playing music for 45 years on various instruments,
> but the correlation of rhythms with notation remains difficult for me.
My guess is that you're playing 20th century popular music, right? In that case, and this will be controversial, conventional notation just doesn't cut it. Transcribe some swing music of the 30's and 40's exactly as it was notated at the time, and MuseScore's mathematically precise playback ain't the way it spozed to sound. The program has a "swing" mode, which partially solves the problem. But, bottom line, there are things that can't be put onto paper. You just have to hear it and know it, which you probably do.
-- J.S.
In reply to It's not your fault.... by John Sprung
But then music notation has never been the be all and end all of how the music should sound.
Now I know that there were efforts in the 19th and early 20th centuries to provide notation which conveyed every nuance of the composer's intention to the performer, but to be quite frank they failed.
The "dots" are merely a guide. The way they are performed is still handed down from teacher to pupil, and without that knowledge you get the wooden performances that you often hear from very young musicians.
A good friend and colleague of mine once pointed out that only 10% of the world's music is written down. The rest is transmitted by oral tradition.
The problem is that we have a couple of generations of people who were taught that the notation is everything - a bit like the 10,000 monkeys producing Shakespeare IMO :)
Regards
Michael
In reply to How about, "Musescore can Improve Musical Understanding" ?? by metaphorce
"Those endowed with such excellent musical understanding that they can transcribe a rhythm accurately on first try have my admiration and envy. I have been playing music for 45 years on various instruments, but the correlation of rhythms with notation remains difficult for me. It'd be nice to have a tool to help get it right. No harm in asking, right?"
No harm indeed, but you do have to realize, every week the developers spend implementing features that are used only for special case uses like this is a week they could have spent implementing features that serve the majority of its users. So hopefully you'll understand if they prioritize accordingly.
But FWIW, I transcribe using pencil and paper while still working on getting it right, relying on my own ability to read music to check to see if what I've come up with so far is correct. Only once I know I basically have it would there be any point in entering it into notation software. Then I can also check the playback and make any *minor* corrections from there easily enough. This type of approach is pretty much guaranteed to be far more efficient than trying to enter notes directly into MuseScore before you have any idea of the rhythm and then fixing them, because as you are noticing, the program just isn't well suited for that task. At least, unless the idea I proposed above comes to pass some day.
In reply to "Those endowed with such by Marc Sabatella
I think the number of people asking about this type of function suggests that it's not really a special case use.
I have been transcribing with pencil and paper. I was looking to MuseScore to be both faster overall and more accurate rhythmically. Doing both would be counter productive for me in transcribing.
I am also contemplating trying my hand at arranging, at which MuseScore will undoubtedly be more efficient, even if I write out the basics on paper first.
Interestingly, I imported a midi file of a performance, and it showed up with no bars at all. And of course, there's no way to insert them. The durations of the notes were, not surprisingly, not simple quarters and eighths, but were divided into the kinds of little splinters of time that could only be arrived at by performance.
In reply to "features that are used only for special case uses" by metaphorce
"I think the number of people asking about this type of function suggests that it's not really a special case use."
Not really. Most of the requests for change to note entry come from people used to another program that works that way by default and were simply having trouble adjusting. I count myself among that number. But we're still talking about using the program primarily for notation, not as a sort of "musical scratchpad" to help aid in transcribing. I suspect the number of people doing what you're doing is pretty low. Besides, MuseScore has been downloaded hundreds of thousands of times. No idea how many active users that translates into, but I'd have to imagine it's in the thousands. Even if you found 20 people on these forums using it that way, that's still pretty small when you look at the big picture.
When we switch focus back to the main task at hand - notation - suddenly the scratchpad idea as I suggested it really isn't a good match for the type of requests that do come in. Instead, what most people who want anything at all (still a minority) seem to want is an "insert mode", in which notes from the cursor to the end of the measure get move to make room as you add or delete notes. That's a pretty far cry from what you are talking about.
You're right, of course, that using MuseScore in conjunction with pencil and paper doesn't speed the process of transcribing. My assumption was that the goal of using MuseScore was to get a nicely print copy of your transcription. And in that case, the choice isn't between using MuseScore or not, but simply in *how* you use MuseScore. Again, though, there's that assumption that the main goal of MuseScore is in producing notated scores.
In reply to "I think the number of people by Marc Sabatella
my 2 cents: I'm not used to any other notation program so to me, it's not a problem of adjusting to new software. My primary use case for MS is for composing which make MS both a scratchpad and notation software. I'm not transcribing anything that has already been printed nor recorded; I mainly am trying to express musical ideas as written scores. I don't see any particular conflict in those functions and MS does a great job helping me out, yet I still run into a fair number of situations that possible, but tedious with MS's user interface. I'm a bit incredulous at suggestions to use pencil and paper to work out rhythms, when MS playback is actually already very good at helping me identify whether I've the correct durations, etc. Actually if I was forced to use pencil and paper for that part, I would never be able to do it -- I guess I'm the same as the other "rhythm challenged" posters here. Having said all of that, I'm not 100% convinced that MS "must have insert" (I do like the scratchpad idea though) but would just lobby that there are many valid workflows out there, and many may be surprisingly effective for the individuals using them.
In reply to my 2 cents: I'm not used to by mtherieau
My suggestion for using paper and pencil was specifically for transcribing, and this is definitely standard practice for just about anyone who transcribes much, and that's is partially because working out the rhythms is often best done after seeing all the notes for a measure. But I'd also say that virtually all composers I know use pencil and paper at first. Not because of any concern over how rhythm might be notated, but simply because it is a much more efficient and more musical way to work overall. Music is not normally composed from the first measure to the last - it is more typically a constantly evolving process of trying things out, rejecting them, altering them, rearranging them, etc. So I don't mean, you'd write music one measure at a time but write down each measure just before entering it into MuseScore. I mean, music is normally not composed one measure at a time at all. Pencil and paper tends to be the best medium for collecitng and assmelbing the various ideas that will eventually form a composition.
Now, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with composing music a measure at a time if you like. I'm just trying to put comments about pencil and paper into the proper context. I am not talking about using it for one-measure-at-a-time composing as a way of working out rhythms while composing - I am primarily talking about using for transcribing, but also as an organizational tool when composing.
In reply to My suggestion for using paper by Marc Sabatella
I abandoned pencil and paper as a means of capturing musical ideas years ago. I still have a box full o stuff I wrote in the 70's and 80's, but as soon as composition software became good enough to provide a reasonable printed output I switched to using the computer.
I am fortunate enough to be pretty good at crystallising what I want in my head before picking up the mouse, but there are still occasions when I just can't get a rhythm right.
In those cases I turn to a MIDI sequencer, engage piano roll view input the notes and fiddle with them until it sounds right.
Notation software like MuseScore is just not suited for experimentation - in a MIDI sequencer piano roll view you can play around with rhythms far more easily, and then switch to notation view for copying into MuseScore.
What would really be useful would be the ability to import small MIDI clips into MuseScore - it would then be possible to build up a ibrary of commonly used phrases to drag straight into MuseScore and tweak as necessary.
Regards
Michael
In reply to Pencil & Paper? by ChurchOrganist
> - in a MIDI sequencer piano roll view you can play around with rhythms far more easily,
> and then switch to notation view for copying into MuseScore.
What software are you using? Can you just copy and paste right into MuseScore? It sounds like what I want may already have been invented.
-- J.S.
In reply to This is really interesting: by John Sprung
My sequencing software of choice is Sonar 3.
It is well out of date now - i think they're onto version 7 now, but it does what I need it to so I have never upgraded.
There are Open Source alternatives such as RoseGarden but I've not played with those so can't comment on them.
Sadly I can't cut and paste direct into MuseScore - to have that function would be absolutely brilliant :) Any chance of that Werner?
Regards
Michael
In reply to "Those endowed with such by Marc Sabatella
"No harm indeed, but you do have to realize, every week the developers spend implementing features that are used only for special case uses like this is a week they could have spent implementing features that serve the majority of its users. So hopefully you'll understand if they prioritize accordingly."
I encourage this sort of discussion, but I think the quote above is very accurate. Over the time I have been here, I have seen many requests that I thought were less important fulfilled, so certainly I don't have all the answers.
However, the stated goal of this program, which I believe is to produce "a top quality Engraving tool" is the most important (to me) goal, and I commend the developers for their ability to keep the primary focus so clear while dealing with so many types of requests.
regards,
In reply to Re: this post."No harm indeed, but you do have to realize, every by xavierjazz
Of course, he (or she) who does the programming gets to decide what it should or should not do. If the point is producing a well-printed score, then that becomes its strength, and its limitation.
My son wrote an iPad app to help autistic kids who could not speak to communicate by typing. A simple typing and display program, with word prediction, featuring a very large keyboard that is easier to use for a person with motor control problems.
Over the year and half since its introduction, we have been continually surprised by the different kinds of people with different kinds of disabilities who find that it is the answer to their problem. Not the intended uses, or the intended audience, but all of them beneficial uses and worthy audiences.
I am not suggesting that you abandon the primary goal, or divert resources from it. But it seems like you've already achieved it, even if there are improvements you still have in mind. It hundreds of thousands of people have downloaded it, and thousands are using it, it must be fulfilling that intention reasonably well already. Once you've achieved it to your satisfaction, do you stop working on it, or do you continue to expand its capabilities to answer even more needs beyond its original intention?
Just to be clear about the basic issue I was originally addressing: If you enter a measure and then realize you want to change it - either because you changed your mind, or because you made a mistake the first time - the editing can become quite cumbersome. Some changes will create unwanted rests, which you then have to turn into the next note you want, but the next note you want is already there, it's just not the right length, so you then have to delete the original note after you change the rest into the note. But by then, the last note of the measure has gotten partially pushed into the next measure, tied across the bar, in order to keep its original duration but not over-fill the measure, so then you have to correct that. Changing two notes turns into changing four or five, very inefficient. It would be useful to be able to temporarily turn off "time justification" even for one measure at a time. That's all I meant. If it's not within the goals of MuseScore, so be it. But I don't think it makes the user somehow musically 'backward' to want to use technology to extend our our abilities and supplement our limitation. That is, in fact, pretty much the definition of technology.
In reply to Dealer's Choice by metaphorce
"But by then, the last note of the measure has gotten partially pushed into the next measure, tied across the bar ...."
This does not happen. The changes you make are constrained to the bar you are working in.
Actually I find it quite easy to change any notes or durations when I want to make a change, but I have been using the software for some time and I have a good understanding of time, pitch and rhythm.
If one has to change a note in the beginning of the bar, it does "steal" from the following duration unless it is the same rhythm and duration, but even if everything else remained the same, as you seem to want, one would STILL have to make those additional changes as the internal time structure of the bar would now be corrupt.
In reply to Re: But by then, the last note of the measure has gotten partial by xavierjazz
It must not have really happened to me when it happened to me. I imagined the tied note.
In reply to I'm sure you're right by metaphorce
lol. As you have seen, if you edit a note that extends its duration past the measure's end, then MS will "borrow" what's needed from the next measure and tie the two notes together. On tangential note, there's an inconsistency with secondary voices: if you attempt to extend a secondary voice note into a measure that does not yet have that secondary voice, then MS refuses to create the tied note.
In reply to lol. As you have seen, if by mtherieau
Re: "On tangential note, there's an inconsistency with secondary voices: if you attempt to extend a secondary voice note into a measure that does not yet have that secondary voice, then MS refuses to create the tied note."
I think it should be a separate issue, or perhaps feature request. Would you post it?
Regards,
In reply to I too have found this. by xavierjazz
sure -- good idea. inconsistency when extending secondary voice notes across measures
In reply to Dealer's Choice by metaphorce
Indeed, one never knows how one's work might be used by others, and one should remain open. Still as a user (but not really a developer) of MuseScore, I can say they are still *years* away from having all the notation features I would want. At some point, I have no doubt that it might become higher priority to look t alternative uses of MuseScore, such as a composer's scratch pad. It's a pretty cool idea, actually - something that I don't think really exists in any form. But still, notation has got to take priority in my opinion, and there's still quite a bit more work to do in that area.
As for correcting mistakes, I believe you are simply speaking from inexperience when you call it cumbersome. Bicycles feel cumbersome at first, too. But once you get the hang of it, it becomes quite simple. If a note is in the correct time position but has the wrong length, you change the length directly. If it has the right length but the wrong starting time position, you either cut and paste it to the correct time position, or simply re-enter it (the former may be easier if a mistake early in the measure means that the next several are all the right length but the wrong time position). Once you realize that those are your options, it starts to become much more clear how to go about getting whatever results you want. And as pointed out, you are simply mistaken about edits pushing notes into the next bar - that's a failing of *other* programs that use the the type of note entry method you seem to be advocating, but a failing that MuseScore avoids quite neatly., as editing one note with *never* pushes subsequent notes into the next bar, or pull them in from the next bar.
Consider your example, which you leave only partially described, so let's make it more specific. You talk about wanting to change only two notes and leave the rest of the measure alone. That's *exactly* what MuseScore does well. Say you entered half, quarter, then four sixteenth (four beats total), but you want to change the first three beats to half then quarter, leaving the sixteenths on beat four alone. So change the half to a quarter (one click), then re-enter the half on beat two (two clicks), leaving the four sixteenths - which were correct in the first place - unchanged. What's cumbersome about that?
In reply to Indeed, one never knows how by Marc Sabatella
The problem so many new users seem to have is that MuseScore seems to arbitrarily change other notes or rests when changes to duration are made, which I also had a problem with when I was a complete newbie. The secret which I learned from help in this forum is that you need to always start at the left in a measure and move to the right. That does not mean you must start at the beginning of the measure, but it must be before any notes that will be affected by the change, keeping in mind that MuseScore will always adjust to keep the proper number of beats in a measure.
So, if you had two quarter notes as the last two notes in a measure, and you wanted to change the last note to an eighth note and the note before it to a 3/8 note, you could not just change the last note, as that will create a rest. But if you first change the first of those two notes, it will work correctly.
The easiest way for me to do this is in note entry mode, rather than editing mode. Just click on the N so it is highlighted after you click on the note you want to change. Then the vertical cursor should show up before that note. If it is not in the right place, use the arrow keys to adjust (sometimes, I think maybe because of a small bug, you might have to move the cursor back and forth over the note if it doesn't "stick" in front of the note). Then just enter the new notes in order over what is there, and the old ones will be replaced. Rests can be placed where you want them in the same way, using the space bar after typing the correct duration in the numerical key pad. Anytime the reaction is not what you want, click Ctrl + Z to undo, and start over.
Hope that helps someone...............Don.
In reply to Actually, I could imagine by Marc Sabatella
That would be excellent!
It's not necessarily a question of getting used to the way MuseScore works, either. It would enable experimentation with rhythms in a way that MuseScore currently discourages. I think it's difficult to predict how people might use it, but it would expand the audience.
In reply to The solution is to rewrite by [DELETED] 5
It seems like a simple need. I forgot to enter a note (or the program deleted it for some reason). I should be able to insert it and move the others beyond it with a simple method, rather than have to delete all the notes after it and start over. Copy and paste does not work.
In reply to It seems like a simple need. by eameece
Actually, copy and paste does work, and *is* a simple method for moving notes to a new time position should you wish to do that. It's just something you have to leave note entry mode for. And indeed, having a special "insert" mode with note entry mode would occasionally save a click or two, so someday hopefully that capability will be added. But note it would still require an extra click to get in and out of this special mode.
In reply to It seems like a simple need. by eameece
You say "copy and paste does not work" - but it works for me, and it works for many others. Can you explain exactly what steps you take and exactly what happens, perhaps with an example MuseScore file? In this case, as your post is buried in the middle of a very old thread, it might be helpful to start a new thread.
In reply to Rephrase a passage by dscoyne
I think that you just need to enter the note or rest at the place where the cursor is.
If I understand your need, you are trying to place a note where you think it should be, visually. Well to have a note in the appropriate place, all values previous to that note have to logically agree that the note can be placed there. Musescore usually works by placing events according to standard time notation. There are exceptions, but I am speaking generally.
Or, I just don't get what your problem is.
Regards,
In reply to Well by xavierjazz
The problem is that because MuseScore sees the measure as all filled up, it won't allow me to enter a note in a new place. So it will not let me place the cursor where there is no note or rest where I want it at the end of the measure. It skips from before the last existing note into the next measure. I would have thought it should allow you to enter the note in the new place and automatically delete an existing rest to compensate. But nooooooooooooooo!
In reply to Placing the cursor by dscoyne
You cannot make a bar display more or less beats than assigned to that bar. That's the way notation generally works, there is a fairly rigid set of conventions so that one can achieve a written representation of a musical idea, just like vocabulary and pronunciation are important conventions of verbal communication.
Regards,
In reply to Rephrase a passage by dscoyne
"When I try to move the vertical cursor to where I want the note, it skips to the next measure. If I try to drag the rest to the end of the measure, it stops half way."
That is because the note duration you have set while you are trying to place the note (using the mouse) is set too high. Set the duration to a lower size first.
In reply to > I want to delete a by [DELETED] 5
Well...the answer to this question about deleting rests pretty much sends me off to Finale. You see...you shouldn't force anything on anyone in your program. There are so many different ways to arrive at a chart. I am trying to create a simple chord chart for an act that I have been asked to help at the Andy Williams theater. I have spent the last hour trying to delete rests on the measure template so I can simply add chord slash's/symbols. Whoever over sees the writing of these programs needs to climb outside the box. I would like to use this program and would be willing to pay for it but I just don't have time to fight the learning curve and more than that...programers who are dead set on traditional ways of thinking. If anyone knows of a way to trick musescore out of it's rests on the template...I'm all ears...or eyes.
DR
In reply to Deleting Rests by Dave Raynor
Perhaps you want to make the rests invisible. Select them, right click, and choose "Set Invisible". The new version 1.1 released just yesterday has added support for chord symbol and slash notation. Marc Sabatella is the guy who really knows about that, here are some links that may help:
http://marcsabatella.blogspot.com/2011/07/musescore-11-released-lot-of…
http://musescore.org/en/node/11723
http://musescore.org/en/node/11726
-- J.S.
In reply to Deleting Rests by Dave Raynor
Deleting rests makes no musical sense - after all, a rest says, "don't play"; what would deleting it would mean? The opposite of not playing? That's not deleting a rest - that's adding a note.
Anyhow, as John says, you can certainly makes rests *invisible* if you don't want to see them, but that's definitely not something you need to do just to create slash notation. See my response to your other post in this thread - slash notation is actually quite easy to create directly wothout needing any hacks like hiding rests or manually dragging and positioning symbols from the palette.
Any new program takes time to get the hang of. But once you get used to MuseScore, I'm sure you'll find it very easy to use. but do take advantage of the documentation that is available, including the Handbook, the tutorials on musescoretips.com., and other tutorials on this site. John has a very nice writeup on how to perform common tasks; I think the best place to find right now it is to look for his posts in the Documentation forum.
In reply to Deleting rests makes no by Marc Sabatella
Deleting rests or notes could be made to work like deleting letters or words in a word processor. If I make a mistake and type the same same word twice in a row, I can select and delete one of them. All the rest of the text to the end of the document gets shifted forward to fill in the empty space.
A rest means "don't play for this amount of time". Deleting it would mean going immediately to whatever had been after the rest. And all the remainder of the score would be shifted forward in time, and the piece would be shorter by the duration removed. Same with deleting notes.
Some people might like to have it work that way, but I see a problem: Typically, we want notes to fall on particular beats within measures. The first beat of a measure gets more emphasis than the second, for instance. Suppose in 4/4 time I delete a quarter note or quarter rest someplace. Several bars later, a bar that contained a whole note becomes a quarter note at the end of the previous measure, tied across the bar to a dotted half. If we had insert and delete at the note/rest level, we'd constantly have to go back to check and make things line up correctly.
MuseScore already does insert and delete, copy and paste, but at the granularity level of full measures, not notes and rests.
It might also be possible to make insert/delete function the pull up/push back way within measures by padding with rests or discarding at the end of the measure. Maybe even push notes out the end of the measure onto a temporary clip board, so they'd come back if you delete something else.... Perhaps a nice feature, but I'm not sure how high a priority it would be given the work involved in programming it.
-- J.S.
In reply to Deleting Rests by Dave Raynor
Dave, I am the user who posted the question that you did not like the answer to. So I had some frustrations also, but got straightened out by the help on this forum. What I learned is that the key to any editing is to always go from left to right in a measure. As you enter what you want, the rest of the measure will adjust, and then just keep entering, and what you want will replace what you don't want as long as it is to the right, Always enter the duration from the number pad before the pitch. I think this is the easiest way to do it when you want to get rid of rests, and also works for notes. When you are changing durations, this will always work. This is the NOTE ENTERING method, which is MuseScore's strength.
You can also change durations in the EDITING mode by selecting a note and then clicking on the notes in the notes bar. But this may get you some other changes or rests you don't want. In which case, click on the N to go back to note entry and you'll get the vertical bar that indicates where you'll be entering the next note. In editing mode you can change pitch by just dragging the notes up or down.
I use the computer keyboard to enter notes and have found MuseScore to be very fast once I got used to it, much faster that when I tried to copy from Photoscore and then edit.
Good luck................Don
In reply to Deleting rests by dscoyne
The efficiency of the left to right and duration before pitch way of working is very content dependent. Some pieces have measure after measure of nothing but sixteenth notes, which goes very quickly that way. But if you rarely have two notes of the same duration in a row, it can be faster to go with the mouse and enter a screen's worth of quarters, then do the eighths, etc. I find that easier for transcribing, it's sort of like using pencil and paper. Wherever I click, I get a note. But to gain access to all the entry points, I first copy and paste short rests over all of the blank score -- for instance, eighth rests in 4/4.
The visual/graphical approach is fine for transcribing, but in that mode, you don't really think about the content of the music. The left to right way is, of course, the way it's actually played, and therefore more natural if you're composing or arranging (which I don't yet know enough about music to actually do at this point).
-- J.S.
In reply to The efficiency of the left to by John Sprung
John, I guess it is a matter of choice. I find that whether the successive note durations are the same or different, it is very easy to do with the right hand on the numerical key pad and the left had entering the pitches from the qwerty keyboard. Easy because most note durations are entered by using just the 4, 5, and 6 keys plus the dot.
In reply to The efficiency of the left to by John Sprung
In most music, you can count on two clicks/keystrokes per note - one for pitch, one for duration. The only cases where you can improve on that significantly are if either there are a lot of repeated note lengths with different pitches - as is often the case in a lot of music, and MuseScore handles well - or if there are a lot of repeated pitches with different note lengths. The latter happens all the time in drum music. A mode in which you firat select a pitch and then type different note lengths to place the notes would be the way to actually cut down on the number of clicks/keystrokes.
old thread, but this is what i've found...
using 0.9.6- cmd-x or crtl-x didn't work, however, doing right click/crtl click and selecting cut did delete notes. however, an easier way of delete would be handy- say, using the delete/backspace key?
to do some of the other specifics
delete a rest- as in make a measure shorter? easiest way is to change the time signature, then rephrase the bar. it does require "full" measures.
the others were covered nicely below. you may have to change time signatures/add ties and such for making a note longer.
In reply to old thread, but this is what by jrchittum
The easiest way to delete a selection of notes is to using the Delete key.
In reply to The easiest way to delete a by David Bolton
I'm running 0.9.6 on MacOS and the delete key does not function for notes, symbols, etc. It works in edit mode on somethings (such as editing text) but not for deleting notes, lines, symbols, etc. perhaps it is only a MacOS problem as far as deleting goes.
In reply to delete key by jrchittum
On my macbook, it's Fn + BackSpace to delete an element since there is no "delete" key per se.
In reply to On my macbook, it's Fn + by [DELETED] 5
ah, thank you. i am using an external number pad with a "delete" that normally works but wasn't in MuseScore. However, the fn+delete works. danke
After having read this thread, I feel I need to comment on the answers given and the problems that were put forward.
Basically, the idea of always making sure that measures are being filled correctly is a good idea. That way you won't end up with inexplicably wrong measures.. But...
The "N" mode is great for entering new notes. But there is not a real "Edit" mode. A mode in which you can actually move notes and rests around in a measure, whilst keeping a full measure. Having to re-write entire measures is clumsy and tedious. This problem gets more obvious when importing .xml files from photoscore. Sometimes, some full measures get "shuffled"; rests and notes get moved around, just to fill up the measure, while the same measure in photoscore was already correct. My suggestion would be that in one single measure, the order of rests and notes can be rearranged. For this a separate "Edit" mode could be implemented, IMO.
In reply to Deleting and Inserting notes by dutchie
But what if I don't want anything in my measures so I can create my own choice of symbols, notes, rests? Again...it's really frustrating to read about the way you think at musescore. You're thinking is to force the user into your frame of mind. That's not competitive. You simply send people to other programs like Finale. I suggest you back to the drawing board and rewrite musescore so it is totally flexible in every way...at every level. As of now...I am at a wall with musescore and am going to have to move over to Finale. If I could simply remove the rests..I would be in business. I know I can go to a template chord chart and may try it but I'm running out of time.
DR
In reply to Deleting Rests by Dave Raynor
As explained elsewhere, if you want to make the rest in a measure invisible, you are welcome to do so. MuseScore does not prevent you from doing so.
In reply to Deleting Rests by Dave Raynor
Before you buy Finale, download a demo of it and make sure it does what you want.
Shouldn't it already be accessible by making use of midi translation? I mean, if you can set the score of a midi, this means that you can represent notes as pitched lengths and translate them into a pentagram. So as you move a certain bunch of sound, this movement could be analogously recompiled into score. That would be the final tool for a music score GUI...
OK...By now you all think I'm a pain in the butt...but I'm trying to give what i think are good suggestions to make your program more usable and more desirable. Here's my suggestion and should be on the top of your list. When writing a chord chart/simple master rhythm chart...all I want in the measures are simple rhythm slashes. You have them under SYMBOLS on the pull down window. How they are inserted is a but clumsy but handleable. You should give the option, either in preferences or somewhere, to have the symbols act in the same way the notes do. If I want to use the slashes...then that slash...or series of slashes...should null and void the rests. That would do it. Also...you should be able to choose a series of slashes...either 1 or 4 at a time...or however many the composer needs...and pull then onto the measure and have them automatically arrange themselves in a uniform order. Now maybe that part can be done but I haven't found it. Let me say this. I work in a band here in Branson with a guy who is writing a music learn to read program. He showed it to me and I made some suggestions as to how it would work better especially for someone just starting out trying to read. He wouldn't hear it. It just had to be the way he sees it. Now he is a top notch reader but as a result i feel he is blinded by it. He simply doesn't see it any other way. Much like some of these guitar videos. The players are so good that their slowed down versions on a lick are still way too fast for the person just starting out. Heck...even for some seasoned players. My only point is to be flexible. Think about all the possibilities and how many different types of use...or how a formate for a score can be.
DR
In reply to About Removing Rests by Dave Raynor
I respect your frustration. Are you able to contribute as a developer so that you can (re) write the code to do what you think it should? This program notates beautifully AS LONG AS you respect classical (and I don't mean classical style) notation approaches. It is Open Source and the developers contribute their time and expertise with no payment. So, this venture is always glad to welcome volunteers. Could you be one?
Regards,
In reply to About Removing Rests by Dave Raynor
Have you read my tutorial on creating lead sheets? Part 2 of that tutorial explains how to do slash notation:
http://musescore.org/en/node/11726
Prior to version 1.1, there was no possibility of using a plugin to automate this as there is now, but still, there was a pretty straightforward way of doing it (enter the slashes as ordinary quarter notes, then select them, right click, click note properties, and hide stems and set the notehead to slash).
In reply to About Removing Rests by Dave Raynor
The way to delete rests is to fill that time location with the note you want.
Regards,
I want to replace a note with a rest.
Anybody know how? This god damn program must think people don't make mistakes so they shouldn't be allowed the ability to delete things. It's like art teachers say you can't use a rubber. Fair enough for the art teacher, but when it comes to composing a song and you wanna change something then you shouldn't have to do the whole thing over again. Help geeeeeeeez
In reply to -.- stupid program by Need Help
There is no need for profanity here. Have you read the Handbook and/or watched any of the tutorials? Replacing a note with a rest is simple - just select the note and hit the Delete key (assumes you are not currently in Note Entry mode). Or enter the rest directly on top of the old note (works whether or not you are in Note Entry mode).
I have written a complex bar which starts with a quaver rest. On consideration, I would like the rest to be at the end of the bar, not the beginning. Is it possible to do this without re-writing the whole bar?
In reply to Delete rest by Peter Classical
Click on the first note, Shift click on the last note. Ctrl + C. Select the first rest, Ctrl + V. Select the last note for the start of the rest you want in the end. Select the duration of the rest and press 0.
In reply to Click on the first note, by [DELETED] 5
but a slightly faster way is to select the phrase and Ctrl + D (delete) rather than just copying it. Then there's nothing to be dealt with at the end.
In reply to Lasconic is right by xavierjazz
Or Ctrl-X, 'cut'
In reply to Click on the first note, by [DELETED] 5
Thanks for all your helpful comments guys - problem well and truly solved, and I'm now much wiser in understanding what's going on. If only I were a better composer...!
In reply to Delete rest by Peter Classical
In general, don't think about where you want to move the rest to. Rests are just the absence of notes. Think instead about where you want to move the *notes*. Sounds like you want to take a phrase that currently begins on beat two and move it so it starts on beat one. So that's why the suggestions are directong you to select the obrase, not the rest. Select the notes you want to move, cut, then paste where you want to move them to. Rests take care of themselves if you get the notes where you want them.
Even though the principle of "filling the measure with equivalent notes/rests" instead of "deleting" seems logic, I have found that "cutting" a note (cmd+x) also works very well for this purpose. I know it's not the standard but it comes very handy. Hope it helps :)
OK. I'm xcitd that a FREE notation program is available. However, I've tried every which way to enter mutliple voices, which worked...but when I added the wrong voice in a measure I was not able to delete it. Editing is challenging on MuseScore. The cursor bounces all over the place when trying to delete and you have to delete full measures or start completely over to get it right. Very frustrated. Finale is not worth the price...but is much easier to use.
I would love to post a video of my experience. BTW, I am a software application tester for my day job. Amazing that deleting 1 or a group of notes is this hard.
In reply to Deleting Notes by redoxen23
Since this is such a long meandering - and very old - thread, I would recommend starting a new one, describing exactly what you are trying to do, and perhaps including a link to a screenr video and a copy of the score you are working on. Chances are, it will turn out to be a simple misunderstanding. MuseScore definitely works differently from Finale and takes some getting used to if you are accustomed to that program. MuseScore is much more like Sibelius, so the adjustment for Sibelius users is much easier. Finale users thus generally find MuseScore to feel complicated at first, while Sibelius users tend to find it very simple. It really is mostly a matter of what you are used to. So again, feel free to start a new thread for the specific problem you are having, and I'm sure we can get you sorted.
In reply to Since this is such a long by Marc Sabatella
I do like the MS product. In many ways its easier than Finale. I do find it amazing that instead of telling me to hit Fn + Delete (which would answer my question) you state that my post is "meandering" and then ask me to post again.
To DELETE a note on a Mac do a Fn + DELETE key. This should be in the manual. All ADD, EDIT, DELETE functions should be next to each other in the appropriate section marked NOTATION. Most of this thread would not be necessary.
In reply to Deleting Notes by redoxen23
You misunderstand - I didn't say *your post* was meandering. I said *this thread* was - that is, the dozens of posts that have already occured on this and other related and not-so-related topics over the past four+ years (!) since this thread was started. Most of what has been posted in this thread has nothing to do with what I now understand your issue to be. Amd simply finding new responses in a thread that extends for many pages can be diffuclt. And that is why I suggested you start a new thread to discuss your specific problem - to make it easier for people to help you.
As for why I didn't tell you to hit Fn+Delete, it's because you didn't provide enough information in your original post for me to fully understand the question. I didn't know what exactly you were trying to do or what you had already tried or what went wrong when you tried it; I didn't even know you were on a Mac. That's why I was asking for more information.
BTW, regarding the Handbook, do note that this is an open source project, so anyone with ideas on how to improve it is welcome to contribute. I know there are plans to re-vamp the documentation when 2.0 comes out, since that is going to involve some pretty significant changes anyhow. But that doesn't mean sufficiently motivated people can't propose or make changes to the manual as it exists for 1.X.
And FWIW, I highly recommend the Getting Started video tutorials that you can access directly on the main musescore.org page. When I was getting started, I found these extremely useful; more so than the manual as far as getting a big picture idea of how things work.
Agauin, though, if you have any other specific questions or issues, it is much better to start new threads to discuss them.
In reply to You misunderstand - I didn't by Marc Sabatella
I did not know MS was open source...fabulous product for being open source. Many thanks to you team!
In reply to Deleting Notes by redoxen23
A couple of important things to help. Follow these instructions:
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/how-report-bug-or-ask-support
and attach the score;
See
http://musescore.org/en/handbook/voices
Get familiar with the program, worth it
I've followed your EXACT instructions. I started with a WHOLE rest, put in my notes correctly, and the stinking rest is STILL there.
In reply to Rests STILL Don't Dissapear by KingConga
You may be better off starting a new thread.
And please describe as exacly as possible what you are trying to achieve, what you did, what you got and what you expected to get.
In reply to Rests STILL Don't Dissapear by KingConga
??? Which instructions> Which score are you you talking about? Is your question related somehow to this thread?
I think you'd be better off starting a new thread, posting the score you are dealing with, then describing *exactly* what you are trying to do, including step-by-step description of how you are trying to do it - eg, click the rest in measure 17, press N to enter note entry mode, enter the following sequence of notes by pressing the following keys, etc.
I had the same problem with the rests. I cannot replace them with notes for some reason. Please help.
In reply to I had the same problem with by musicDrama
Same like what? This is an old and very long thread, better start a new one and describe what doesn't work, what you tried, what you expected andf what happened instread.
You simply select a rest, press N, optionally set the desired length, then enter the pitch
I don't know if this post that I made four years ago directly answers your questions, but it might:
The problem so many new users seem to have is that MuseScore seems to arbitrarily change other notes or rests when changes to duration are made, which I also had a problem with when I was a complete newbie. The secret which I learned from help in this forum is that you need to always start at the left in a measure and move to the right. That does not mean you must start at the beginning of the measure, but it must be before any notes that will be affected by the change, keeping in mind that MuseScore will always adjust to keep the proper number of beats in a measure.
So, if you had two quarter notes as the last two notes in a measure, and you wanted to change the last note to an eighth note and the note before it to a 3/8 note, you could not just change the last note, as that will create a rest. But if you first change the first of those two notes, it will work correctly.
The easiest way for me to do this is in note entry mode, rather than editing mode. Just click on the N so it is highlighted after you click on the note you want to change. Then the vertical cursor should show up before that note. If it is not in the right place, use the arrow keys to adjust (sometimes, I think maybe because of a small bug, you might have to move the cursor back and forth over the note if it doesn't "stick" in front of the note). Then just enter the new notes in order over what is there, and the old ones will be replaced. Rests can be placed where you want them in the same way, using the space bar after typing the correct duration in the numerical key pad. Anytime the reaction is not what you want, click Ctrl + Z to undo, and start over.
Hope that helps someone...............Don.