New MuseScore Mixer GUI, Please!!!
Hi, gang!!!
As I had a full "free time" this last weekend, I could test all the soundfont files we can use for free with MuseScore, included the old SoundBlaster Audigy series.
Even the fact that all those files have a lot of differences between them, the worst thing they have is... TOO MUCH AUDIO LEVEL DIFFERENCE!!!
With some of them, I had to raise the overall MuseScore synthesizer gain up to 0 Db. With others, I had to lower the gain up to -40 Db. It is a very wide range (40 Db is the typical level difference from the musical "piano" to "fortissimo" levels).
Well, as we know to change the level of each of all those soundfont files isn't an easy work, I propose a change, a deep change into the MuseScore Mixer GUI:
1) The mixer needs a new "GAIN" potentiometer knob, on each channel (track). This knob has to work BEFORE the job of the "VOLUME" knob. The "GAIN" circuit is always before all the other circuits in all the audio real world mixing consoles. It is intended to give an extra "gain" to the original sounds from the soundfont files before the general volume of each channel. So, we will be able to control, in a better way, the level of the instruments we're using.
2) I know that the list of instruments the mixer shows is ordered according to the General MIDI standard. And it's so fine!!! BUT... Would be ask too much if the instruments be shown as a spreadsheet (like the typical Excel spreadsheet )? This "table" would have the GM number at the left edge column and the instrument name(s) we have enable to use, shown on the other columns (each column to each soundfont file we are using, ideally with the soundfont name(s) as columns first row). So, if we use just one soundfont, we will have the column of the GM number and the column of the instrument names of that soundfont. Of course, if we are using more than one soundfont, we will have more columns. It is intended to make more easy the act to choice our instruments.
3) I'm not sure if the "Reverb" and "Chorus" knobs are working with 2.0.0 and above versions. I think no, so... Why they are there? Why this function is controlled from the synthesizer panel? Isn't it a mixer related function? ??? BTW: my personal opinion about this: I prefer to perform these effects out of MuseScore (with Audacity, if I saved the sounds, or external effects machine, if I used it with external amplifiers), but it is just my humble personal opinion.
4) At last, MuseScore has grown to a very superior level on the software world, so, I think it deserves a better "dockable" graphical interface to the mixer. Something like the attached file (with the obvious adaptations).
Greetings & Blessings!!!!!!!
Juan
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Comments
my 2cents: I think musescore should stick to its plain and simple and boring mixer. If a user really wants fancy controls, they can send the midi via jack to some external program. MuseScore is a notation editor first.
In reply to my 2cents: I think musescore by ericfontainejazz
I agree with eric here. I just opened the attached picture, and I closed the windows because it was too much information at once. I don't want new MuseScore users to do the same.
That being said, I'm in favor of making the sound selection easier to use. See https://musescore.org/en/node/63666 for a discussion.
MuseScore is a scorewriting application, not a DAW.
There are plenty of commercial and open source solutions around if you require the aping of a hardware mixer.
Most of these controls are irrelevant to MIDI anyway and are to do with control of audio to various busses within the mixer. The rest are all audio related - there is no way in General MIDI to control 3 bands of EQ.
So sorry, this would be completely inappropriate for MuseScore
Personally I like the minimalist nature of the existing mixer - it does its job admirably well. The only change I would like to see other than a better sound selection menu is a box for each control which displays its current value, possibly with spinboxes for fine adjustments.
In reply to MuseScore is a scorewriting by ChurchOrganist
The thing shown in that image is definitely inappropriate for MuseScore, but of jotape's suggestions at least 1) and 2) make a whole lot of sense.
For example, having a Gain control that applies to an entire SoundFont. (This control might be better integrated in the Synthesizer, but then one of the suggestions that has been around before is to combine certain aspects of the Mixer with the Synthesizer.) Some SoundFonts are simply different volumes than other SoundFonts, and if you're going to load more than one and use some sounds from each of them…
And the worst thing about the current Mixer GUI is the fact that all the sounds from all the loaded SoundFonts are in a single unbroken list in the dropdown menu, and in order to access one SoundFont you have to scroll all the way through the SoundFont above it. I don't know whether it's possible to make a table come out of a dropdown menu instead of a list, but if so, then jotape's "spreadsheet" suggestion is perfect, exactly as he described it.
As to 3), as I understand it those controls don't do anything unless audio is being routed through JACK to another program.
In reply to The thing shown in that image by Isaac Weiss
Thank you so much, ZackTheCardshark!!!!!!!
At least, someone understands me!!! hehehehehe!!!!!!
In reply to Thank you so much, by jotape1960
Something like this? ;-)
In reply to Something like this? ;-) by Isaac Weiss
I don't know where you have got this from Zack, but it doesn't appear to be showing sounds in the alternate banks, which will be a major weakness.
In fact really the soundfont name is pretty irrelevant (although it is nice to have) - what is more important is to show all sounds in all banks in a consistent manner.
A two tier menu would do the job admirably with each GM instrument class opening a submenu with all the instruments from each bank. I have started work on some code to implement this, but unfortunately my other commitments are preventing me from making progress.
What you have here is a good start, but it doesn't go far enough.
Have at look at what I have started in #63666: Improve mixer patch selection. It's pretty embryonic atm but may provide a starting point.
In reply to I don't know where you have by ChurchOrganist
I got it from jotape's"spreadsheet" idea and made the mockup by combining screenshots of a table made with LibreOffice and MuseScore's Mixer.
I must confess I have no understanding at all of how a SoundFont is internally organized—I basically assumed that each SoundFont can be represented as having all its patches arranged in a list (perhaps with gaps), and the lists can be put up side-by-side. Is it not realistic to have the alternate banks simply be extensions at the bottom of the list?
The technicality of the discussion at #63666: Improve mixer patch selection is far beyond me, unfortunately. The best I can hope to provide is UI ideas.
In reply to I got it from by Isaac Weiss
I think the most relevant example of an issue with this presentation is, the "Mellow Yamaha Grand" that is currentlly near the end of the FluidR3 list (because it is in a different bank) would be better off if it could somehow be shown with the other pianos.
In reply to I think the most relevant by Marc Sabatella
Which is what I'm trying to do.
I know how to write the code to fill the arrays etc, but I'm floundering with Qt, and I currently don't have the time to sit down with it and work it out.
In reply to Something like this? ;-) by Isaac Weiss
That's the original idea, Zack!!!
The only one thing I have to say about your table is the Bank problem: All the soundfont files have more than one bank. The same MIDI instrument value (for example: 00) could have different sounds if it is from the bank 0, or bank 1, or bank 2, etc. The table should be order by bank. In other words, each soundfont file (the columns of your table) should be divided into columns to each present bank. A little harder, but... That's life, men!!!
I attached a PDF file about all the instruments (sounds) into the GeneralUser GS
MuseScore V.1.42.sf2 soundfount file, to help to see all the bank issue. This file is written in spanish, but it's so easy to translate to english (just a button into any text processor, hehehe).
BTW: Another thing the MuseScore Mixer needs is a button, just one button, to fix all the tracks volume values to "0" (zero) Db. The same thing we can do with the Inspector panel (although the Inspector panel general control is about the velocity of the notes, nothing with the individual volume tracks).
Just my humble ideas.
In reply to That's the original idea, by jotape1960
If you mean you wish to reset a mixer knob to its default value, just double click it.
Here's my 2 cents:
To the OP's ideas
1) the gain knob is a good idea
2) Changing the voice selector may be a good idea, if it is implemted like ChurchOrganist has suggested.
3). Maybe the reverb and chorus knobs could tie into the VST Master Effects ZIta1 reverb that Musecore already uses?
My own ideas:
1) DEFINITELY MUST fix the mixer entries for instruments with multiple voices. I propose that each instrument get its own panel (instead of each voice) and that each panel may have as many voices as desired (so if I make a guitar instrument, I can add an electric voice and a muted voice, for instance, without having to change instruments.xml) The current mixer, especially when there are multiple orchestral strings or trumpets, is too crowded and easy to get lost in.
2) It'd be nice to be able to create seperate folders for the instruments in the mixer, such as "winds" "brass" etc. but user controlled so that it could be any arbitrary category (because there are so many types of music.) This would be helpful, for instance, in a rock song that had an orchestral interlude and only had the orchestra for a few bars.
3) Maybe there could be a forward/back in the pan control? Is that even possible?
4) I'd personally love to have a tone knob like the one on my DAW's mixer that makes the sound brighter/ darker. But I understand if that's impossible, too. It would make distinguishing between, for instance, bass and baritone easier while listening. Or even a fine detune knob or something.
5) Eventually, like in 2030, it'd be nice to have access to VST synths and stuff.
I have been using Musescore for a couple years now and it has opened huge doors for me as a musician. I love the work that's already been done and appreciate the hard work that goes on everyday! I hope someday I can contribute somehow! (Besides just throwing ideas out there)
In reply to Here's my 2 cents: To the by joseph.branden…
There is already access to VST synths via the JACK system for those wishing to do this.
By the way, talking about mixer GUI...
What I would really like to see is a mixer which is constantly visible. When writing music, I often mute\solo some instruments, and currently it requires 3 steps: open the mixer window; actually mute\solo an instrument; close the mixer window. It is not particularly optimal workflow I dare to say.
One way to make it better is to add a new mixer panel, just like in TuxGuitar[1] or GuitarPro[2]. This approach, though, has a drawback of being almost useless if the score is written for large ensembles.
Another, probably better way to do it is to inject mute\solo (and, optionally, volume) controls into the overlay shown in continuous mode. Currently, MuseScore shows an overlay with instrument names at the left side of the screen in continuous mode (see [3]); my proposition is to convert this overlay into a full-fledged panel-like thing (by panel-like I mean it's not half-transparent and it doesn't overshadow part of the score), which would contain basic instrument controls.
One more possibility, and the easiest one, is just to add two new items ("mute" and "solo") to the context menu of the staff. Also, keyboard commands should be provided to mute and solo current instrument (i.e. all the instruments of the staff of the currently selected note).
Although it's not a major issue, I would like to see it discussed. Please let me know if you think it's out of the scope of this particular thread; I create another one then.
[1] -- https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a2/Tuxguitar_screensho…
[2] -- http://img.guitar-pro.com/produit/01_interface-1.png
[3] -- https://simplyrobert.files.wordpress.com/2015/02/musescore-continuous.p…
In reply to By the way, talking about by [DELETED] 3339701
>> "What I would really like to see is a mixer which is constantly visible..."
Maybe this could be rewritten as a specific feature request: "Any windows already open when close musescore should reopen when restart musescore."
>> "One way to make it better is to add a new mixer panel, just like in TuxGuitar[1] or GuitarPro[2]..."
Maybe this could be rewritten as a specific feature request: "Allow any windows in the View menu to be dockable." Currently, only the Palletes, Navigator, Selection Filter, and Piano keyboard are dockable, but the Master Pallete, the Mixer, the Synthesizer, or the Play Panel are currently not dockable.
>> "probably better way to do it is to inject mute\solo (and, optionally, volume) controls into the overlay shown in continuous mode."
I can anticipate a problem with this would be if you zoom out in continuous mode, then the staffs will be very close together, and so would not be enough vertical space for each instrument's mixer controls to be fully displayed. Now, if a feature request gets added that allows the mixer to be docked, then if it can get docked directly left or right of the score view, then the user could set the zoom level to exactly the zoom that would allow each mixer control to line up and be visible, if user chooses to do so.
In reply to >> "What I would really like by ericfontainejazz
The problem with the mixer in a docked window is that it won't scroll when the score is scrolled in vertical direction; my point is that it'd be nice to have mute\solo buttons right near the staff they are related to. Although, I see it is much harder to implement, and docked mixer is actually good enough, yeah.