Instrument transposition that doesn't alter key signature
Finale has an option for "chromatic transposition" when setting up an instrument; Sibelius has a special "Open key/Atonal" when setting the global key signature. In both cases, the intent is to allow for instrument transposition in scores that are more effectively written with no key signature at all. Otherwise, if you used C major as your key and key-based transposition, then transposing instruments end up with various key signatures (eg, one sharp for F instruments, two sharps for Bb instruments, three sharps for Eb instruments) which is really misleading and harder to read if the music is inherently atonal.
It looks like MuseScore allows me to manually transpose selected passages this way, but that's not what I mean. I am looking for a way to specify this as the default behavior for the piece (as in Sibelius) or each staff for a transposing instrument (as in Finale) so that toggling "Concert Pitch" will alter the displayed pitches (including those in recognized chords) for transposing instruments but leave their key signatures alone. And of course, all parts should display this way when this option is used.
Does such a thing exist in MuseScore currently? If not, I'd like to request it as an important step in making this a more useful environment for orchestra/band work. Given the choice, I'd much prefer the Sibelius method. That way I set it once for the whole score, not for each instrument separately, and it means I can use my same templates for both tonal and atonal music.
Comments
Am I correct in that your request is for Keysignatur-less scores(parts)? If so, this is an approach in Jazz that I have found VERY useful. All accidentals displayed. No ambiguities.WYSIWYG.
regards,
In reply to Am I correct? by xavierjazz
Correct. I'd say most of the music I deal with works better this way. Not necessarily atonal, but so highly chromatic that key signatures just get in the way.
In reply to Correct. I'd say most of the by Marc Sabatella
That's what I found in many Jazz experiences (most other-focused notation never dealt with this in my experience). Not having to deal with remembering key signatures when reading lines was a great relief. Not to diminish(ahem} the value of key signatures, it is a freeing experience to just "read what is there". Thanks for bringing this forward.
regards,
I don't know how long this has been there, but I see in the nightly builds there is the ability in staff properties to control whether or not a given staff use a key signature. Near as I can tell, this gets the job done. Thanks!
In reply to I don't know how long this by Marc Sabatella
I just tried to find the switch you mentioned. But in 43f1feb I couldn't find it in staff properties. Has this feature disappeared again or has it been moved to somewhere else?
In reply to I just tried to find the by heuchi
Looks like it's moved to the Staff Types dialog. That is, in Staff Properties, you select a Staff Type, and he available staff types are defined in Style / Staff Types, and there you can define a staff type to be key-signature-less. Haven't tried it, though, so I have no idea if it really works for this purpose.
In reply to Looks like it's moved to the by Marc Sabatella
I found the Style/Staff Types dialog window where there's a switch as you said. However, unchecking "Key Signature" didn't do anything. Key signatures just stayed. "Ledger Lines" didn't do anything, either. Only "Stemless" worked as expected.
In reply to I found the Style/Staff Types by heuchi
See #21625: "Key Signature" and "Ledger Lines" in staff type don't work
In reply to See #21625: "Key Signature" by [DELETED] 5
Nice, I look forward to trying this. But I'm a bit afraid - I wonder, is the key signature simply hidden, or is the lack of a key signature actually reflected in use of accidentals in the music? That is, create a part for Bb clarinet with a C major key signature, with key signature turned off in staff type. At concert pitch, enter C D E F. Turn off concert pitch, which effectively puts the part in D. What I'd *want* is for the part to display no key signature and show the notes D E F# G with an explicitly sharp on the F. But if it's simply hiding the key signature, there would be no sharp on the F. That would be much less useful, at least for this situation.
In reply to Nice, I look forward to by Marc Sabatella
This feature just remove the key signature from the display and has no effect on the notes. So it's indeed probably useless for your purpose. I guess the only way would be to add an atonal key to handle your particular case.
In reply to This feature just remove the by [DELETED] 5
Is there another purpose for which simply hiding them is actually desirable?
As it turns out, it has "often" worked to simply delete the key sgnature upon turning off Concert Pitch. Seems to result in no key signature displayng even when Concert Pitch is turned back on, and the accidentals "mostly" take care of themselves. Makes me nervous, as I don't really understand why this works, and there have been quirks with courtesy accidentals, and the behavior with respect to accidentals seems to change from release to release as other bugs with courtesy accidentals are fixed. At first glance, this actually appears to work perfectly in current development 2.0 builds. Slap a name on it and call it a feature?
In reply to Is there another purpose for by Marc Sabatella
Looks more like a bug to me... but maybe we are close to an atonal keysig... what about key change?
In reply to Looks more like a bug to by [DELETED] 5
I agree, it's probably a bug, but a convenient one I *have* taken advantage of occasionally in 1.X.
While it's certainly possible someone somewhere would want an atonal key signature for part of a piece then a regular one for another part, I've got to imagine this would be very incredibly rare. Whereas atonal key signatures themselves are quite common in my world. Not so much for actual atonal pieces, but just ones with enough chromaticism and vague enough harmonically to be easier to read without a key center than with. Much modern jazz is this way.
So sure, ultimately, a "real" atonal key signature that could be used anywhere a regular key signature can would be the way to be. But meanwhile, just making sure there aren't bugs in this bug would suffice :-)
In reply to I agree, it's probably a bug, by Marc Sabatella
I understand your point, as I'm sure you understand, the problem with this approach is that the "bug" could be fixed anytime, and your score would not be rendered/act correctly anymore.
In reply to I understand your point, as by [DELETED] 5
Definitely understood. I don't really rely on this, but I've taken adanvtange of it to get some parts printed for specific projects. I realize that if I open the score next year I might find things different and have to revisit it.