measure of undefined duration

• Sep 5, 2015 - 06:02

Entering cadenza-like material would be much easier if an irregular measure could have an indefinite duration. As it is, as far as I can see, one must either calculate the actual duration ahead of time, or designate a longer duration than needed, enter the notes, calculate the total duration of the rests remaining, return to the actual duration, and subtract the total rests. If the rests are, say, a whole +a quarter + an eighth + 3 sixteenths, this is not easy. Similarly, it would be nice if one could copy and paste a passage including irregular measures without specifying the actual lengths of the receiving measures ahead of time.


Comments

No need for all that - simply enter the notes using whatever time signature suits your fancy, then use Edit / Measure / Join Measures to combine them as desired.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Thanks. I didn't think of that, perhaps because the following measure already had notes in the same or another part, so it wouldn't work. I was working on a score, not parts (I've learned my lesson on that!), so the disablement mentioned on p118 of your book wasn't the issue.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

I won't pretend I'm so foresighted as never to want to add cadenzas, etc., after generating parts, but the same problem would occur in a score with several instruments if one instrument has been entered and then another having cadenza-like material is entered before parts are generated.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Not a bug. In the attached file, I entered the piano first. I didn't create parts. If I now wanted to add a flute cadenza in measure 2, even if I hadn't entered more of the flute part, it would line up incorrectly with the piano part. I think I would have to add more time in measure 2, add the cadenza, remove any remaining time in the flute part, and then hide the extra rests in the piano part. Not so bad, I guess, now that I know how to create a full measure rest (thank you!), although alignment might be troublesome if the piano had more notes in the measure.

Attachment Size
measure_of_indefinite_duration.mscz 12.3 KB

In reply to by jwpratt

I guess I was thinking in these cases where you are inserting cadenzas after the fact, you'd simply insert measures for it as well, just as you would if you weren't planning on joining them later. I don't know, I guess I'd still need to see what you are talking about to understand better what you are asking/saying.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

Here's what I'm talking about. See measures 45-6, 51-6, 109. I had to do a lot of shoving things around to get the appearance I wanted, though I may not have proceeded in the best possible way. Because I was having problems, I think I entered things as grace notes that I could have entered far more easily from the MIDI keyboard. When playing, the pianist would do better to look at the parts rather than try to relate them to detailed rests in the piano part, in my opinion. Thanks for your interest!

In reply to by jwpratt

What I am still trying to understand is what it is you would have wanted different. Specifically, you said something about notes no longer aligning, but I just don't know what you mean by that. How did the notes align before you added the cadenza, and how did adding the cadenza change that? It seems to me that if you create the cadenza I have described, the alginment is completely under your control, so I still don't understand what the problem is. A specific series of step by instructions - this is what I started from, this is what I did in what order, this is what I expected to see happen, this is what happened instead - would be useful in order to understand what you are actually asking.

In reply to by Marc Sabatella

The only thing I am requesting is the possibility of designating a measure as having indefinite length. It would end with the last note (or even rest) entered in any part. I'm not asking for help with alignment difficulties. My difficulties may have come about partly because my collaborator wanted time signatures for the actual measure length and then agreed to take them out, and I thought it easier to hide them and adjust the alignment than to do whatever else would have been required. But I agree the alignment is under my control. I would always expect to have to do some work to show the rests I wanted in the positions I wanted in measures like that. I'm not asking for magic. Well, not that magic. The whole thing is magic already. :-)

In reply to by jwpratt

Addendum: I think I was mistaken in an earlier comment about alignment. (Now it has disappeared from the screen so I can't date it.) I think I was concerned that adding measures in the middle of an existing score as Marc suggested would throw parts out of alignment in time, not just appearance. I now think I was wrong. I still think a measure of undetermined length would be natural and convenient for adding cadenzas and the like, as well as for unmetered music, but the alternatives to accomplish the same thing are reasonable.

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