What key have I transposed this piece to?
This is not a trick question. I have re-arranged a harpsichord piece from notation into guitar tab and during the process it went through an iteration of transpositions. Could someone please tell me which key it has ended up in as I want to put this into the title? The guitar has a capo applied at fret 2.
Original harpsichord:
Re-arranged for guitar with capo 2:
Comments
Seems B Major / g minor to C Major / a minor? That's what Capo in 2nd Fret does I think
Adding a linked normal staff should show
The first note in the original is a low G.
The first note on the open fifth string would normally be an A, but since there isa capo on band 2 it will sound B. This is major third higher than the original.
Since the original key is Bb major or G minor, the new key will be D major or B minor. (Two sharps).
In reply to The first note in the… by AndreasKågedal
Sure? Capo in 2nd fret is not a major third, is it?
In reply to Sure? Capo in 2nd fret is… by Jojo-Schmitz
No, but the change from G to A as the first note plus the capo two to bake it a B does add to a major third. So, B minor is definitely what this is showing.
Regarding the submitted image of the Telemann tablature, there are two possible key perspectives:
Thank you all. B minor it will be. Not sure why D major is an option but I'll go with the consensus.
Good idea on adding a linked stave, (not that it would've helped me but it sounds like it would have been more obvious to you), but since it's been resolved I don't think it's relevant now.
In reply to Thank you all. B minor it… by yonah_ag
The key signature of D major is the same as B minor, 2 sharps.
In reply to The key signature of D major… by mike320
Key signatures are a bit of a mystery to me as they aren't used in TAB scores. So, with D major being the same as B minor then how do you decide which of them to assign to a score?
In reply to Key signatures are a bit of… by yonah_ag
B minor and D major simply share the same key signature: two sharps. It's the sense of "tonal center" (relative to a key signature) that determines the key. A good indicator of the tonal center is the note the piece resolves to.
Thus:
Then there are the modes.
There are seven modes, including major (Ionian) and minor (Aeolean):
...
In reply to B minor and D major simply… by scorster
I guess that since the original composer specified a minor key then I should too.
In reply to I guess that since the… by yonah_ag
I'm not a guitarist, but I think using a capo to change from A to B means no key signature is necessary since A minor has no sharps or flats in the key signature. If I understand a capo, you play it like it's in A minor and you hear B minor.
In reply to I'm not a guitarist, but I… by mike320
Correct.
However TAB in any key still doesn't need a key signature on the score because the fret numbers are sufficient. A key signature would not change the fretting. Capo position is important but doesn't change the fret numbers seen the score; it just transposes the playback. The guitarist plays the fret numbers relative to the capo.
In reply to Correct. However TAB in any… by yonah_ag
If you decided to add a linked staff with notes it would matter. I know you won't. I was just explaining the keys that were mentioned.
In reply to If you decided to add a… by mike320
Very true. As I said, I'm not really that familiar with key signatures other than that the number of sharps/flats somehow imp!y the key – or, from what I've just seen in this thread, the 2 possible keys. I still don't understand why there are 2 keys but I'll go with B minor.
In reply to B minor and D major simply… by scorster
Scorster - This is incorrect. If the tonal center is D then it gets two sharps, whether the mode be Ionian, Lydian or Mixolydian. The key signature always designates the key. So E minor Dorian has one sharp in the sig and an accidental (c#) where it's needed in a measure. C Mixolydian has no key sig and includes the accidental of a Bb when needed in a measure. C Lydian has no key sig and an accidental of f#. Try working this out and arranging the keys and modes. You'll be really surprised. The rule is that the key sig designates the key and accidentals indicate the mode wherever necessary. You need to know this in order to notate it correctly.
In reply to Scorster - This is incorrect… by Rockhoven
FWIW, while this is indeed what I would recommend - using major and minor key signatures only and add accidentals as needed - this isn't universal, and in the Renaissance it was pretty common to use modal key signatures. And many people still do, although again I don't recommend it either. The point is, it isn't "incorrect", just maybe "inadvisable unless you know your readers will be familiar with this less common usage".
In reply to FWIW, while this is indeed… by Marc Sabatella
Didn't Bartok revive that older method? Satie? I only brought it up because it's a challenge to learn this another way. The elementary method of working out the modes is not the final word. Most learners are attracted to the first way because of the pattern that emerges. A pattern emerges also when you rework this material from a modern perspective. It's worth it for the poster to rework this.
In reply to Scorster - This is incorrect… by Rockhoven
Rockhoven,
You're correct.
An E dorian mode requires without a F# and a C#.
E Dorian can be written in any manner that affords those notes.
The "D" signature (aka B minor) suffices and provides and elegant solution. Writing it in this manner is common; and it's often how modes are explained in Music Theory 101.
Of course, as you said, one could use single sharp signature (the G major / E minor) and add C#s as needed, but I've never seen that.
Or you could go signatureless (or with a C / A minor signature) and write in all the F and C sharps manually. This would be more effort, but makes more sense to me than working around a single sharp key signature for E Dorian
scorster
In reply to Rockhoven, You're correct… by scorster
scorster - Sorry. The word "incorrect" is imprecise. I think I should have said that you were "incomplete." You have never seen the modern method? It's all over classical music from Bach on upward. The Beatles expanded their tonal palette by borrowing the sharp, flat or natural from the previous or the next key in the circle of fifths. So, if in C, they borrowed f# or Bb.
Take a look at the first chord in Beethoven's Sonata #15.
Rock
In reply to The key signature of D major… by mike320
Does this mean that the chords would also be the same in these 2 keys? Do all keys have a major and minor pair like this?
In reply to Does this mean that the… by yonah_ag
Yes, the same diatonic chords exist in the relative major and minor, and all keys are paired this way.
You might want to check out the various handouts from my Basic Music Theory course - https://musescore.com/user/2975/sets/5099981. See in particular the ones on the major and minor scales.
In reply to Yes, the same diatonic… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks, these are great. Is the online course time limited once a user registers or would I continue to have access for an unlimited period?
In reply to Thanks, these are great. Is… by yonah_ag
Should work as long as the Internet does :-)
In reply to Thank you all. B minor it… by yonah_ag
Obviously D major is not really an option in this case. It says G minor in the title of the original, to the transposed part is B minor. Obviously. I did not read it as carefully as I should have before I answered. I just looked at the key signature. Actually, the chords in the first bar is clearly G minor as well.
In reply to Obviously D major is not… by AndreasKågedal
You prompted an interesting discussion and contributed to my education. I would not have known that a key signature didn't indicate a single key if you hadn't mentioned the D major option.