Hairpins do not change loudness mid-note.
The fact that hairpins do not change loudness mid-note makes sense for a couple of instruments for example the piano or plucked strings.
However, many Instruments CAN vary their loudness mid-note and they often do. Violin, Viola, Cello, Contrabass, Singers, and wind instruments for example.
Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to get this dynamic to work in Musescore.
I read this (https://musescore.org/en/handbook/hairpins) article and activated "Use single note dynamics" but this
still produces a quiet sound that doesn't get louder at all.
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| MuseMixer.png | 62.62 KB |
| MuseSynth.png | 39.41 KB |
| tEST.mscz | 3.82 KB |
Comments
I tried this with Violin, Viola, Cello, Contrabass, and Bagpipe. All of them stay at the same loudness.
In reply to I tried this with Violin,… by Mraco_o
Attach the actual score where it doesn't work and a picture of the dynamics tab in your synthesizer.
In reply to Attach the actual score… by mike320
Upladed the score and pictures of Mixer and Synthesiser.
If you are using the default sound font, try the Expr. version of whatever instrument you are using.
In reply to If you are using the default… by bobjp
Not sure how to do this. I googled and followed these steps:
Set up MuseScore to play back Single Note Dynamics (SND)
Firstly, the Soundfont used needs to be able to respond to MIDI CC (Control Change) 1, 2, 4, or 11 messages—this is the case with MuseScore's native SoundFont, MuseScore_General_HQ, for example. From MuseScore 3.1 onwards, SND playback is enabled by default.
If, for whatever reason, you need to (re)enable SND playback of the SoundFont:
1 Display the Synthesizer : View→Synthesizer;
2 Click on the Fluid tab, and ensure that the first soundfont listed is MuseScore_General_HQ;
3 Click on the Dynamics tab. Set "Dynamics method" to "Default (Single note dynamics and velocity)"; and "CC2" to "CC2 (Default)";
4 In the "Advanced settings" section (Dynamics tab) click the button marked “To Expressive”;
5 Click "Save to Score".
(which can be found here: https://musescore.org/en/node/290616
All those things were enabled by default though. Not sure where to find "the Expr. version" of instruments.
In reply to Not sure how to do this. I… by Mraco_o
Open the mixer (press F10), select an instrument and towards the top left of the mixer will be a "Sound:" field with a dropdown next to it. If it doesn't have expr in the name then click it and choose the expressive version. If it does say expressive then attach your score because there are a few obscure things you can do to turn it off.
In reply to Open the mixer (press F10),… by mike320
I can't find such a sound. I created a string quartett-score and all I can find is
1. Violin
2. Violin (1)
And searching for "Ex" only gives me "Explosion...
In reply to I can't find such a sound. I… by Mraco_o
For some reason the sound you have is Grand Piano, so no crescendo would be expected.
Click on the sound tab
![Sound Tab.jpg]( "Sound Tab.jpg")
and scroll a l-o-n-g way down to find Cello expr.
In reply to For some reason the sound… by SteveBlower
I somehow managed to upload the older unsaved version where it was set to Piano. It doesn't work, even with Cello selected. I feel like "Cello Expr." is missing in my list! I really can't find it.
All I can find is "Cello (1)". Could this be it? Selecting "Cello (1)" doesn't fix the sound...
In reply to I can't find such a sound. I… by Mraco_o
The problem with finding the expressive sound is that you need to have MuseScore_General_HQ.sf3 as your fist sound font (if you don't aleady). Next, when you set the sound in the mixer, click the drop down then start by pressing Home so you will start in the first soundfont (which shoud be the one I mentioned). Violin (1) is in the second sound font you have loaded and the sound font you used has strange mappings, it came up a xylophone on my computer. Violin with nothing next to it is the first sound font (sound font's start numbering at 0).
Now there is something I can't find that's keeping the dynamic from working. I set it up on my system so it should work. Perhaps @theotherjthistle (who wrote the SND code) or someone else can look at this and see what's happening.
In reply to The problem with finding the… by mike320
I noticed that i accidentally uploaded a file where I still used the "Piano" sound. It should now be Cello.
I use the default Musescore-SF. (Althogh I also have GeneralUserGS installed.)
In reply to I noticed that i… by Mraco_o
Your latest score is still set in the Mixer to "Cello" sound rather than "Cello Expr." sound as you were advised above.
But I can still hear a crescendo even with the sound set to "Cello".
In reply to Your latest score is still… by DanielR
As I said in a previous comment, I can't find "Expr."-sounds.
There's only
1. Cello
2. Celeste
3. Cello (1)
4. Celesta
And unfortunately, I can't hear any crescendo. I also can't see the amplitude rising when watching the Synthesizer while the score is played.
In reply to As I said in a previous… by Mraco_o
You don't have the right sound font loaded. See my post above for the name of the correct soundfont.
In reply to You don't have the right… by mike320
MuseScore_General_HQ.sf3
Do I need to download this individually?
![MuseSoundFont.png]( "MuseSoundFont.png")
Those ...
... are the only ones I have. The top one is the one that came with Musescore. As far as I know, no others were included.
(Also, this https://musescore.org/en/handbook/soundfonts-and-sfz-files#soundfonts says, that "MuseScore_General.sf3" is the usual Musescore-Soundfont
In reply to Your latest score is still… by DanielR
I only hear the crescendo when I have CC2 and Expr. Cello selected. This is the only score I don't hear SND on.
In reply to I only hear the crescendo… by mike320
> This is the only score I don't hear SND on.
I don't understand the meaning of the second sentence.
In reply to > This is the only score I… by Mraco_o
If you go to Help->Resource Manager the MuseScore_General_HQ.sf3 soundfont is listed under extensions. You can get it from there, then add it to your list in the synthesizer.
In reply to If you go to Help->Resource… by mike320
Nice, it worked! "Cello Expr."s showed up and the crescendo works perfectly. Thank you!
Any idea why a worse Soundfont is used by default? Or does MuseScore_General_HQ.sf3 have other downsides? Also, why is this the only SF where mid-note dynamics seem to work?
In reply to Nice, it worked! "Cello Expr… by Mraco_o
HQ was made to work with SND. It's optional because it's so big compared to the default sound font. It has about 2 times the sounds in it. As long as you use the default SND settings there are no real downsides.
In reply to HQ was made to work with SND… by mike320
I see. And are there any other functions it has (in terms of overall higher quality sound or the likes) or is SND the only additional thing?
Somehow, I can't find any information regarding this SF online.
In reply to I see. And are there any… by Mraco_o
I'm not sure of any details of differences between the sound of HQ and the default. Someone else might know for sure, like Ziya or Marc.
In reply to I'm not sure of any details… by mike320
Any way to ask or @ them?
Anyways, thank you for solving this crescendo-problem for me! :)
In reply to Any way to ask or @ them?… by Mraco_o
I'm sure Marc will read this and Ziya usually looks at forum posts about sound fonts.
In reply to I'm not sure of any details… by mike320
I vaguely recall something about piano and strings having improved samples. It's S. Christian Collins who could say better.
In reply to Nice, it worked! "Cello Expr… by Mraco_o
Hey, I've created a similar problem and I have no idea how to fix it...
![MuseLoudQuietAlwaysQuiet.png]( "MuseLoudQuietAlwaysQuiet.png")
On measure 59 of the attached score, I wanted to make a crescendo (originally, it was meant to be n to mf, that didn't work either).
It just doesn't work. The Cello stays on ppp loudness and I have no idea why. The SF is the correct (HQ) one, single note dynamics are enabled everywhere and I use the Expr. Cello.
(To test, just use the mixer to play only the cello; this gets rid of the distracting violing&piano.)
Any ideas what could have gone wrong?
In reply to Hey, I've created a similar… by Mraco_o
It's because the "fff" isn't an actual dynamic, it's just text attached to the crescendo. In order for this to work, you'd also need to set the velocity change explicitly on the hairpin. Or, better, remove that text using the Inspector and add the dynamically normally, from the Dynamics palette.
Probably you tried using the hairpin from the palette with the built-in dynamic. This is for show only, it doesn't affect playback. It was included early on in 3.0 development and in my opinion should have been removed before release, but anyhow, don't use it if you want playback to work and don't feel like setting the velocity change explicitly.
In reply to It's because the "fff" isn't… by Marc Sabatella
What i think i did is: I inserted the ppp, then added the crescendo, then marked the crescendo and clicked fff in the palette.
> It was included early on in 3.0 development and in my opinion should have been removed before release
I agree, this is quite confusing, at least for a new user that expects the things to do something if they aren't disabled/hidden.
Sounds like a possible feature-request to me.
Also, ty, separately adding the dynamic worked!
In reply to Hey, I've created a similar… by Mraco_o
Here's what I did;
Measure 59, delete hairpin. This also deleted the fff associated with it.
Measure 60 add fff to note in beat one.
Measure 59 add hairpin. Dynamic works.
Personally, I add dynamics first, then hairpins.
It seemed as though you wanted the fff to be near the end of beat 4 in measure 59. But, technically the whole note in measure 59 doesn't end until the downbeat of measure 60. That's why I placed the fff there.
In reply to Here's what I did; Measure… by bobjp
Got it to work, thanks!
And yeah, i basically wanted the fade-in to be done when the measure is done, so that the first note of the next measure is played in the new default loudness.
In reply to Hey, I've created a similar… by Mraco_o
@Mraco_o
![Voice 2 used with hidden rests.jpg]( "Voice 2 used with hidden rests.jpg")
There is another way to place dynamics exactly where you want them. You can use Voice 2 to place hidden rests, like this:
Then you have explicit anchor points for each dynamic: the ppp, the hairpin start and end, and the fff. This also ensures a robust layout which will survive change in system breaks and scaling.
In reply to @Mraco_o There is another… by DanielR
Thanks for the hint, seems like a good trick! :)
In reply to @Mraco_o There is another… by DanielR
I would suggest, that, that simply placing the fff directly under the first note of the next measure is going to say precisely the same thing to a musician, and will do it less confusingly, and with less work. The only time one should need to play games like this is it you want the crescendo to reach full volume before the next measure and then immediately change to a different (e.g. lower) dynamic,.
In reply to I would suggest, that, that… by Marc Sabatella
This notation (fff at the end of the whole note) has legitimate uses that is not playing games. If the entire orchestra has a crescendo that ends on beat 4 of the measure and most of the orchestra has shorter notes that make notating this natural, using DanielR's method is the way to notate it so the cellist knows to watch the conductor for when the crescendo ends. In a cello solo this would not be a good notation. Use the right notation in the right place.
In reply to This notation (fff at the… by mike320
I don't quite get why it would be bad in a (fast) cello solo.
In reply to I don't quite get why it… by Mraco_o
In a cello solo the soloist is going to make it expressive in their own style so putting the fff without a dynamic on the next note just doesn't make sense (in my opinion). It's not necessarily bad but what does it tell the soloist?
In reply to In a cello solo the soloist… by mike320
Understood.
In reply to I don't quite get why it… by Mraco_o
It seems to me that in the given example, putting the fff at the end of the measure would mostly make sense if the downbeat of the next measure were not fff. Sure, there are cases for wanting the volume to be full before the down beat. But it really depends on how the music is written. Musicians and conductors are not stupid. It's their job to reproduce the composers' wishes without too much hand-holding. And just what are the composers' wishes? Hard to tell, sometimes. I see scores with so many markings that it's hard to see the notes.
In reply to This notation (fff at the… by mike320
OK, makes sense indeed. Absent that context, it seems like an affectation, but I can see there would be legitimate use cases for it.