MIDI ECHO

• Jan 18, 2021 - 07:37

Probably that you do not know that versions 3.5 and 3.6 has MIDI ECHO, I am back to version 3.
About machine and system: laptop Myria with IntelCeleron and Windows 10 Home

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• Jan 18, 2021 - 12:35

Aha, finally some nugget of information that might give a hint at what the problem might be (and edited away..., your use of MuseScore as a sequencer / for MIDI recording with electronic instruments):
Try unchecking Edit > Preferences > Note input > Play Notes When Editing.
If that helps it isn't MuseScore echoing, but your MIDI device ;-)

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• Jan 18, 2021 - 13:02

OK, let's step back.
What actually is the problem?
What actually is your setup?
When do you hear an echo?

Note entry into MuseScore using a MIDI keyboard? Hearing the sound once from the keyboard and a 2nd time from MuseScore? Probably not, as the above mentioned setting should have fixed that...

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• Jan 18, 2021 - 13:38

Now I am on another laptop, an AsusVivobook 15 Intel Core i7 with Windows 10 Pro.
Now i use korg pa like Midi in and Midi out.
I know from a time ago that MuseScore play in sametime with his sound font, or with windows midi table, and with my synthesizer. And i remembered a few minutes ago, that solution was to put Master Gain to minimum.
Probably that when working without using hardware sequencer, Musescore use two midi sound sources.
Now i wiil testing MuseScore for working with trakx, using Master Gain on minimum.

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• Jan 18, 2021 - 14:04

Last time, when i was on Myria laptop I used HeadSpeakers. that echo seam to not be from final audio power I guess that is because MuseScore is working with two midi sound generators.
And now also i use HeadSpeakers.
That echo is not from audio, is my opinion, that echo is from two midi sound generators.
I thankyou verry much for your answers that inspire me to try MuseScore 3.6 again. :-)
MuseScore is a very useful and verry powerful tool for learning and practicind music using scores.
If you are his developer, I am proud about changing these messages with you, Maybe you will think to make MuseScore to work with custom patches from hardware synthsesizers. :-) And keeping Musescore freesoftware ofcuorse. :-)

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• Nov 15, 2021 - 07:06

Hi Jojo-Schmitz

I'm sorry to reactivate this thread after a long time but I strongly believe that the problem still exists.

I have Musescore 3.6.2.548, and I have attached a Kawai MP11SE to Musescore over the USB MIDI cable. There are 3 activities that I do while connected to Musescore:

A. playing the MP11SE (without interacting with Musescore)
B. enter notes into Musescore by playing the MP11SE (in step-time mode)
C. playback the entered notes by Musescore

The annoying thing is that with activities A and B I have a MIDI echo meaning that the same note is played two times with a very slight time difference which creates a unpleasant superposition containing high pitch notes. With activity C I don't hear MIDI echoes which is fine.

None of the following measures solves the problem:

a. Edit - Preferences - Score - Uncheck 'Play notes when editing' (has no effect)
b. Turning off the volume of any of my PC's mixer channels (has no effect)
c. Turning down the master gain or the volume in Musescore's Mixer (just silences everything)
d. Prevent the MP11SE to recieve MIDI messages (because activity C is no longer possible)

So what happens is this:

  1. The note that I play on my MP11SE is sent to the audio output.
  2. The MIDI that enteres Musescore is echoed to the MP11SE and the note is played again.

So both sounds are generated by the MP11SE but the problem is the MIDI echo of Musescore.

By the way, I have seen lengthy threads about this same issue on other forums which tells me that (1) there is a problem and (2) there is a communication problem about this issue. I hope I could clarify it with this post and of course I hope for a solution.

Alex

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• Nov 15, 2021 - 14:53

Actually, I suspect on re-reading this that the OP wasn't actually talking about MIDi at all but about reverb. hard to be sure.

Anyhow, it's definitely a known fact that when using a MIDI device to input to MuseScore, it will play the note through its own synthesizer, so if your keyboard is also playing the note, you'll hear it twice, with a small delay. That's perfectly normal, and to fix it you simply need to silence one device or the other.

It sounds like you are saying the note is also being sent to your MIDI input device - like you have selected it as an output device as well. If you don't want that, simply disable the MIDI output in Edit / Preferences.

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• Nov 19, 2021 - 07:47

Marc,

Thank you for your answer. I really had a hard time to make things clear, because there are other threads with lengthy discussions about it, but apparently it does not help. This problem is doomed to be misunderstood, it seems to me.

I stated that:

b. Turning off the volume of any of my PC's mixer channels (has no effect)

thus 'Musescore's own synthesizer' cannot be heard at all.

Furthermore, I stated that I want to be able to

C. playback the entered notes by Musescore (not when I play it but on playback ONLY)

so 'disable the MIDI output in Edit / Preferences' is not a solution to the problem.

Alexander

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• Nov 19, 2021 - 14:47

I understand what you are saying you want to do in your request c). You want your computer to make no sounds while you are inputting notes. This is currently possible, by simply muting your computer’s speakers during that time.

Someday there may also be commands within MuseScore to do that automatically, but for now, you simply need to press a button (or whatever control your computer provides) to mute and and unmute as desired.

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• Nov 19, 2021 - 20:31

To Marc: the echo is there even when I'm turning down the speakers of the PC, because Musescore SENDS BACK the MIDI notes that I play on the Kawai. So the Kawai first plays the note from the key press and some milliseconds later the MIDI note from Musescore again. This produces an interference with very high pitched notes, depending on the actual delay.

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• Nov 20, 2021 - 00:07

Ah, OK, I think I understand. In that case, you need to actually remove your Kawai as an output device while entering the notes as I suggested previously. Or, set your keyboard to not listen to external - many keyboards have such a control. I don't actually recall that particular subject coming up in any other thread, just the part about wanting to automatically mute MuseScore. Feel free to post links to ones you think are about the echo. If there are enough similar requests, that definitely helps in prioritizing this for future consideration. But honestly, your is the first I remember. I wonder if maybe most keyboards automatically detect and reject such echo?

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• Dec 12, 2021 - 17:55

That's actually a different problem - the one I was assuming you were talking about. That one is obvious enough - playing a MIDI note causes both your keyboard and MuseScore to play the sound. No echo of the same device playing the same note twice, just two device playing at once. A problem indeed, but a very different one, which is why I was having trouble understanding your special situation.

In other words, it's always true that playing a MIDI note causes it to play both on your computer and on your keyboard. But the issue you are describing where the keyboard itself plays the note twice - that's one I had never seen described before, and am unable to reproduce myself.

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• Dec 19, 2021 - 07:45

Thank you, Marc. You are right.

In the mean time, I have found a workaround which is a bit awkward. On my MP11SE, whenever I want to figure out what to record, I disable MIDI output by pressing the MIDI Zone 1 button to turn the LED off. When I want to record to Musescore I press that button again to light the LED and send MIDI. So it's a constant turing on and off. The good thing is that I can leave the Musescore Step Time button activated all the time as long as I do not have to reposition the cursor.

I looks like I want to criticize Musescore. This is not the case, however. It's an incredibly useful tool for me. Coming from 'Improvisor' which was a nightmare, I can really appreciate and profit from it.

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• Nov 19, 2021 - 16:00

@alexborg... Regarding...
C. playback the entered notes by Musescore (not when I play it but on playback ONLY)

So, you have notes already entered into a score and wish to hear playback? Do you want 'Musescore's own synthesizer' to handle such playback, or do you want your Kawai to do so?

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