How to make Musescore play two notes of same pitch twice?
Hey,
with the voices option we can put up to 4 notes on the same pitch and place. Then that note becomes a note with a double stem for example (if we used two voices).
However, when musescore plays that bar, it only gives the sound of one note, as if there was only one note. But I drew 2 notes, just with same pitch.
On piano of course one can press a key only once at a time. However, for example on drums, I can hit the drum with 2 sticks at the same time. I want that effect of hitting a note twice but can't figure out how to do that with Musescore, like when it plays it back to me.
If I move one of the notes to a higher or lower pitch, now suddenly it plays 2 sounds at the same time, but not when I choose the same pitch.
Thanks.
Comments
Detune one of them by a few cents
In reply to Detune one of them by a few… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks for the reply. How do I do that?
Because they become automatically a note-head with 2 stems, which means I can only select one note. How do I select one of them?
In reply to Thanks for the reply. How do… by DivanMakam
which means I can only select one note.
vs.
How do I select one of them?
:-)
It does matter which you select and detune (via Inspector)
In reply to Thanks for the reply. How do… by DivanMakam
In note input mode (press N to get there) you can change the voice using Ctrl+Alt+1-4
In reply to In note input mode (press N… by Jojo-Schmitz
Can you please be more precise?
I can already change the voices with my mouse. However, no matter what I do, I can't select from a double stemmed note one of the voices. I mean I do choose with my mouse the head, and tune it, however it seems that the 2nd voice note is also being adjusted to the same detuned pitch.
In reply to Can you please be more… by DivanMakam
If you select, you select only one, and therefor only detune one. It doesn't matter which
In reply to If you select, ypou nselect… by Jojo-Schmitz
Yes, agreed. I did exactly that. But when played back, it still plays as if only there was one note.
I am attaching a test file. Look at the 3rd note. I raised its tuning to 300. And still, when you play back, you still hear one note (and not the detuned one).
In reply to Yes, agreed. I did exactly… by DivanMakam
Strange indeed (300 is way to much I'd use 5 or 10, but that doesn't seem to work either)
Attached with 25 cent (100 cent is a semitone), 2nd note in voice 2, 5th note in voice 1, the former can get clearly heard (and hurts), the later not (or only very subtly)
In reply to Strange indeed (300 is way… by Jojo-Schmitz
You probably meant the 3rd note in voice 2 as the 2nd note has no changes.
And if I am not mistaken, it still doesn't work. Yes, the 3rd note's detuning can be heard like you say, but this is not what I wanted.
My main question is how I can let Musescore play two notes of same pitch twice. In this example it still plays only one voice in the 3rd note (but there are 2 voices there).
So are you confirming that this is not possible with Musescore? Or is this a bug?
In reply to You probably meant the 3rd… by DivanMakam
No, I meant 2nd note in voice 2, the 2nd quarter (matching the 3rd 8th in voice 1)
Well, it is a piano (and only one), there you can hit the same key only onc, therefor play the same pich only once. And duration wise here the voice 2 note wins (as it is longer)
In reply to No, I meant 2nd note in… by Jojo-Schmitz
I see, you counted correctly, my mistake.
Well, as you can imagine, this is only a test file, so I chose piano for a quick example.
So, can you send me a test file with any instrument where it would play the same pitch twice?
I am trying to display Turkish rhythmic patterns where in one of the cases the left drum is hit by 2 sticks at the same time. So I need that sound where you can hear the drum being hit twice, but the playback always only plays 1 tone for the same pitch. And you said originally that detuning one of the notes would solve the problem. And clearly seen in our test example, it does not work.
Here you can see a real example: https://musescore.com/user/43514534/scores/7541741
The next to last note "HEK" is the problem I have. There the left drum is hit by 2 sticks at the same time. In my example you can hear the closest thing I accomplished so far. But that is wrong. Because it uses the sound of the right drum to give the feeling of "hitting with 2 sticks".
Any help is appreciated. Thank you so far.
In reply to I see, you counted correctly… by DivanMakam
It appears you are concerned with unpitched percussion rather than pitched instruments.
For some background info.. here's a file I had which shows the detuning for 2 trumpets (pitched instruments) playing two notes of the same pitch:
2_trumpets.mscz
Percussion, especially unpitched percussion, behaves and sounds differently - mainly because it can neither be sung (no beatboxing here) nor hummed. However, unpitched percussion can be detuned, but the tuning has to be changed way more than one would use for a pitched instrument. Only then does the change become noticeable.
Since I have no idea what percussion instrument you are using, or what it's supposed to sound like when 2 sticks hit at the same time, I have only tried a quick experiment with this attachment:
Percussion_detune..mscz
I have no idea how subtle or how pronounced the change should be when 2 sticks are used. This approach may not work at all for you. Keep in mind that MuseScore is designed as a notation editor, with basic playback capabilities - not as an audio production software capable of producing studio quality recordings.
P.S. If the 2 sticks actually hit at a fraction of a second difference, the Piano Roll Editor can tweak the notes' ontimes: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/piano-roll-editor
In reply to Apparently you are concerned… by Jm6stringer
Thank you for taking your time and for preparing these examples just for me. Much appreciated, really! Yes, in my case I am concerned with an unpitched percussion instrument which is called "kudüm". I didn't want to go into specifics as western musicians are most likely not familiar with other music traditions. So I tried to ask in a generic fashion.
In our case "kudüm" is the backbone of religious Turkish music. The dervishes used to play that instrument for the whirling. And when Turkish rhythm patterns are demonstrated, usually one of two instruments are chosen, "kudüm" and "bendir". Example for kudüm: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xP2oHyospM
In our music we have like 150+ rhythms and our website, a non-commercial one, is doing a project right now trying to demonstrare all these patterns. Hence why I started using musescore because one can embed it to webpages. We also found a working soundfont for this. Our goal is to demonstrate a very old tradition as perfect as it can be on musescore. These traditions are at least 4-5 centuries old, most likely much more. That is why I am seeking for a solution to my problem where it is traditionally important to have that "double hit" on the percussion instrument.
Now, back to your examples. The first example with the trumpets is great. The last two bars are exactly the style I am looking for.
The second example with the last 4 bars nails it on the head. But if I am not mistaken, you are using 2 staffs. In my case I only have one staff. Are you saying that I need to use 2 staffs for this to work? Because I don't do that right now. Is it somehow possible to do that with one staff or maybe hide the second staff? For educational purposes I have to stick to a well-known format for our music where we only use 1 staff with 2 lines. Meaning each line is representing a drum. Here is the example again: https://musescore.com/user/43514534/scores/7541741
About the piano roll editor. Do you mean I can move one of the notes so there is a fraction of a second difference so I can get that "double hit sound" that way? That would also be great. Just, in both cases, how do I do that with 1 staff? Is that possible?
Thanks.
In reply to Thank you for taking your… by DivanMakam
You wrote:
The second example with the last 4 bars nails it on the head. But if I am not mistaken, you are using 2 staffs.
Is it somehow possible to... maybe hide the second staff?
The second staff can be hidden:
Percussion_detune_hidden.mscz
Use menu item: Edit > Instruments... and put a check in the 'Visible' box.to see the staff.
(In the Mixer, I adjusted the 'Pan' control slightly in the example. Depending on your instrument and soundfont this can be adjusted.)
I suppose the true ideal way to do this, though unfortunately winds up being a ton of extra work, is to have a division between the notation and the performance instruments. You have your drumline where all the notes are visible and done exactly the correct way, using voices as necessary and whatnot... but every note is set to silent. Then, you set up some additional instruments, splitting up, say, your "two flutes" staff into two distinct flute instruments. Write out the notes that each plays, adjust the panning and volume, and hide the staves.
That way, you get your notation and can hear it too, at the cost of doing... far, far more work. Theoretically Musescore 4 should alleviate most of this wretched workflow; I know for me it can't come soon enough.
In reply to I suppose the true ideal way… by LuuBluum
Thanks for your reply. Unfortunately this is too much work to do and I am a beginner trying to understand this software, which means much likely I wouldn't be able to pull this off. Thanks for another route though.
Curious, I have the contrary feeling : in big-band or concert band we have for ex , in big-band 4 trumpets. Often they play different pitch of notes, at the same time, but , sometimes, they are "unison" same time and same pitch . When it is like that, the sound is very stronger than the others times, (beacause the phase) and I "delete" , in the inspector, the lecture of these notes for 1 or 2 or 3 trumpets to re-find an usual sound
In reply to Curious, I have the contrary… by Raymond Wicquart
I believe what you are describing is happening because you have multiple instruments playing at the same time. That means from your example you have actually 4 trumpets and 4 staffs for them each.
That differs from my case. I am talking about 1 instrument only, with one staff only. But an instrument which is capable of hitting one note twice at the exact same time. Like drummers hit with their 2 sticks one drum at the same time. So technically you get 2 hit sounds from the drum, not just one. With one trumpet you can't do that, you would need at least 2 trumpets to get the same effect.
I posted above a real example of in what situation I need this and so far no "real" solution was offered sadly.
In reply to I believe what you are… by DivanMakam
You are expecting a recorded sound to be able to reproduce live sound. Not possible. What you would need is a font that has double hits. Having the same instrument, be it a drum or trumpet, play the same note at the same time only results in the note being louder. Not sounding like more than one instrument. That's physics for ya.
In reply to You are expecting a recorded… by bobjp
Even then the software lacks because it doesn't play the sound louder...
And theoretically speaking detuning the one note should at least make it like 2 notes are played (1 real pitch, 2nd one detuned). And, again, the software doesn't do that, even though 2 notes (voices) were inserted...
I guess there is no solution to my problem since I can't have a font created just for this.
Thanks.
In reply to Even then the software lacks… by DivanMakam
Try this: Set up a score with some of your drums. Enter 2 128th notes (same pitch) on each beat. Try different drums and tempos. Sometimes it kind of sounds like a double hit to me.