How do I shift all future measure notes to the left?
Hi all: I am working on a new song, and was able to transpose a PDF file of the piano score to musescore using the website's PDF converter. However, there was one error in timing that I cannot figure out how to fix.
Here is a screenshot of the problem:
Somehow, the conversion added a 1 1/2 note rest to one of the measures. In the screenshot, the rests in green don't belong there and have to be removed. Measure 39 must begin with the blue notes and all notes beyond must move to the left 1 1/2 beats. I have tried deleting the green rests via "selected range", but it just changes the measure from a 4/4 beat to a 5/8 beat in measure 39 and does not move any notes in measure 39 and beyond to the left. All the remaining notes still remain shifted to the right by 1 1/2 beats.
How can I delete the green rests and force all notes beyond them to shift left so that the blue notes begin measure 39 and all notes beyond are in the right spot? I realize I could just select all notes to the end of the song, and manually cut and paste them onto the first beat in measure 39, but I suspect there is a way to force a portion of a measure to delete and automatically force all future notes to shift left. How do I do it? Thanks in advance
Comments
Cut and paste is the way to move things. And it has the very large advantage of letting you specify exactly how many notes you want to move - it's pretty unlikely the PDF converter literally is off for the entire rest of the score. Even in the unlikely event that it is, it's still only 4 clicks to select to end of score and move.
In reply to Cut and paste is the way to… by Marc Sabatella
Well OK. I did cutting and pasting and it has basically worked itself out, although new positioning problems have surfaced later in the score which also need fixing. I just wondered if there was a way to delete part of a measure and force all following notes to physically move left. Are you saying there is not such a way?
In reply to Well OK. I did cutting and… by fsgregs
I am saying that cut and paste is how you move things. Doesn't matter if it's one note, two notes, a full measure, six and a half measures, everything to the end of the score on one staff, or what - cut and paste is how you move thing. One command is all you need to move a range, regardless of the length of the range you want to move or your reasons for wanting to move it.
In reply to I am saying that cut and… by Marc Sabatella
Why would you want to delete part of a measure to make it roo short and then have to do another thing to make it the correct length. Just leave the measure length alone and do what you really want, move the notes earlier in the score.
You wrote:
Measure 39 must begin with the blue notes and all notes beyond must move to the left 1 1/2 beats. I have tried deleting the green rests via "selected range", but it just changes the measure from a 4/4 beat to a 5/8 beat in measure 39 and does not move any notes in measure 39 and beyond to the left.
Why did you delete the green rests via "selected range"?
The handbook (https://musescore.org/en/handbook/3/tools#timewise-delete) states:
"Note: If the selected range includes only part of a measure, the result will include a measure of smaller duration than the indicated Time Signature. This is indicated by a small - (minus) sign just above the system."
So, you intentionally shortened the measure's total duration by using this tool.
Rather, you should leave the measure length alone (4/4) and move however many notes you want to place earlier in the score by using cut and paste. Only you know how many notes should be moved - especially to avoid any "new positioning problems" which may occur later in the score.
The cut and paste tool will "do what you really want, move notes to earlier in the score".
It would be of little use if it exclusively and specifically moved "all future notes" (i.e., all notes to the end of the score).
In reply to You wrote: Measure 39 must… by Jm6stringer
Thanks for the reply. I of course could move notes from the rest of the measure, or from the next measure into proper position by cutting and pasting. Unfortunately, that just leaves a void in the next measure where I cut the notes I needed.... and so on and so on. Because of the pdf conversion, ALL notes from that problem point forward were 1 1/2 beats to the right, all the way to end of score. To fix the problem, I really had to cut the entire staff of notes to the end, and paste the entire set 1 1/2 beats to the left. That fixed the problem OK but I thought there was a way to delete just a portion of the beats in a measure and have all following notes shift left. I now know that is not the case.
I am really pleased that there is a way for musescore to convert a PDF file into a musescore file, even if it sometimes causes notation problems I have to fix, like this. Thanks to all for your advice.
In reply to Thanks for the reply. I of… by fsgregs
Selecting to the end of the score is no more difficult than selecting to any other end point. Easier in fact, as after selecting the start point, you can use CTRL+SHIT+END to select everything to the end of the staff.
In reply to Selecting to the end of the… by SteveBlower
Or even CTRL + SHIFT + END.
In reply to Or even CTRL + SHIFT + END. by bobjp
Oops!
In reply to Oops! by SteveBlower
Haha.
In reply to Thanks for the reply. I of… by fsgregs
You wrote:
I am really pleased that there is a way for musescore to convert a PDF file into a musescore file, even if it sometimes causes notation problems I have to fix, like this.
You might be interested to know that the software used by the online MuseScore conversion is freely available here:
https://github.com/Audiveris/audiveris#readme
You also wrote:
Somehow, the conversion added a 1 1/2 note rest to one of the measures. In the screenshot, the rests in green don't belong there and have to be removed.
Okay, here's the point...
The Audiveris OMR (optical music reader) engine must have "seen" something in your original pdf which caused its interpretation of that 1 1/2 note rest. This was passed through during the "one pass" conversion performed by the online service.
However, included within the Audiveris software itself is an OMR editor which a user can tell to "ignore" problems like this before launching the final transcription of the pdf. In other words, initially fixing problems using the Audiveris OMR editor can prevent such error(s) from appearing in the first place, and then propagating to successive measures, resulting in greater effort to fix when eventually opened in MuseScore.
In reply to You wrote: I am really… by Jm6stringer
Great! I just downloaded the Audveris software from the link you provided. Thanks so much. I am fearful of another software learning curve I have to absorb, but I get what you say. I think the problem first occurred when the software converted a 4/4 measure in the PDF into an 8/4 measure (or something like that). When I edited the measure properties to make it 4/4, somewhere on the next page, I found the software had added 1 1/2 beats to one of the measures, and pushed all future notes 1 1/2 beats to the right. I presume by using the downloaded program and going through some learning curve, I could fix it myself, and I will slowly tackle this, but honestly, simply cutting and pasting the rest of the notes and manually repositioning them in the right spot, has taken care of the problem at the moment. FYI, I finished the song and posted it to Musescore. You can find it here: https://musescore.com/user/725791/scores/8988848
Thanks for the great tips.
In reply to Great! I just downloaded… by fsgregs
Ah, that explains it. As I said before, it is incredibly unlikely - to the point of being almost flat-out impossible - that a PDF importing program could ever mess up so badly that literally every note was shifted to the right for the rest of the piece. That couldn't normally ever happen; at most, you get one messed-up measure at a time. But, it's definitely quite easy to make things worse in an attempt to fix the problem, and create exactly the sort of problem you then needed to solve. So really the best thing to do if this ever happens again would be to post here with the score attached before trying to fix it, and then we can show you how to fix the original problem without causing the sort of the damage that you then had to repair. Because, merely shifting the notes left a beat and a half doesn't fix the problem - you're now stuck with all your rhythms written incorrectly, as note had to be tied over barlines that shouldn't have needed to, and now they'll be tied needlessly within measures - and conversely, other notes that should be tied won't be. To some extent MuseScore can fix that with Tools / Regroup Rhythms, but still, much better to not have get the score into that state to begin with.
In reply to Ah, that explains it. As I… by Marc Sabatella
Marc:
Maybe I've got it wrong, but frequently, the PDF to musescore conversion gets timing wrong. I find at least 8 - 10 measures in a song to have become the wrong timing. In the past, I have assumed the way to fix this problem was click on the faulty measure, select "Measure Properties", change the timing to the correct value, and see what happens. Most of the time, the score will be corrected for 10 - 20 measures, until it hits the next wrong timing measure. I then fix that with "measure Properties", and the song gets fixed there. Ditto to end of song.
This time, for some reason, when I did that in measure 26, the timing of measure 32 got 1 1/2 extra beats at its start, which forced all future notes 1 1/2 beats to the right. As you said, ties got all screwed up, notes were in the wrong place, etc. Trying to fix that by deleting those extra beats simply changed the timing in that one measure, and all future measures remained screwed up.
If there was some way you could have fixed this if I posted the score here, without editing the timing using "Measure Properties", please tell me what I should have done instead. I'm a quick learner.
In reply to Marc: Maybe I've got it… by fsgregs
Yes, PDF import often gets a lot wrong - but it's always one measure at a time. An error in one measure will almost never affect more than one subsequent error, because barlines are barlines and they make it virtually impossible for parts to be shifted for the entire score.
As for the best way to correct errors caused by PDF import programs, that is very dependent on the specific case. Hence, the suggestion that you post the converted score before you attempt whatever it is you might have tried. I mean, you can certainly try what you like first and if it works, great. But if it makes things worse - as it did here - then best to post the original here instead of the modified version. Simplest way to do that is to just make a copy of the converted score before you start editing.
In reply to Yes, PDF import often gets a… by Marc Sabatella
Marc: OK, I am not comfortable posting a PDF converted mscz file here and asking you all to fix its many mistakes. It's not fair to you and I much prefer trying to fix them myself.
As a test, I am posting here the very PDF converted file of the song involved in this whole thread (Alone). As you can see when you open it, it is FILLED with timing errors (over 3/4 of all measures are screwed up). You can tell by the (+ plus) symbols in most of the measures. Now, other than that one rare problem I posted about, where all subsequent notes moved to the right after I edited Measure Properties in one of the measures, I was able to use "Measure Properties" to fix the timing in all the other bars. If that is NOT the correct way to correct timing values in all the erroneous measures, please tell me what to do and I'll try to do it. I have to learn these things on my own. Thanks as always for your wise counsel.
In reply to Marc: OK, I am not… by fsgregs
Well, we're not volunteering to fix all the errors for you, and even if someone were, that would be their choice - so don't feel shy about asking for help! People will offer what they can. I'm not saying adjusting Measure Properties is never the right thing, I am saying, there a thousand different errors PDF important, so a thousand different techniques for fixing them - it's not generally possible to give a single foolproof recipe that works for every measure. This is why I often say - although few believe me - it's usually easier to enter music yourself than to try to fix the errors caused by PDF import. It's a ton of effort that requires some major MuseScore expertise, whereas entering notes manually anyone can learn in minutes.
Anyhow, if you point to a specific measure you'd like help with here, and show a picture of how it's supposed to look, we can show you the best way of dealing with that measure. Generally, it will be some combination of changing note durations, cutting and pasting notes to new time positions, moving notes to new voices, using Ctrl+Delete or Measure Properties to remove extra beats, sometimes deleting notes and reentering where it's just too far off, etc.
In reply to Marc: OK, I am not… by fsgregs
Posting your original PDF would help also. The mscz is too messed up.