Mini slurs as articulations for cross system drone ?
Hi!
I am writing medieval-inspired music with drone chords that are held across system breaks.
I would like to specify to the player that they shouldn't re-attack the notes, but I find long-reaching slurs peculiarly inelegant, it makes the score unnecessarily busy on staves that should be understood as very still on the contrary. I admit that I am not a very skilled engraver, but the only solution that I found is to fiddle around with slurs and different layers, which is not practical at all and often doesn't survive a save-and-reopen.
Below are pictures showing what I want to achieve.
I have figured workarounds, and I am also considering using a "let ring" sign to convey the right meaning, but it's not ideal.
Any ideas?
Comments
Why can't you use ties? See Handbook:
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/entering-notes-and-rests#ties
https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/editing-notes-and-rests#ties-normal
In reply to Why can't you use ties? See… by DanielR
Well, I tried of course, first option. I tried both slurs and ties. Those images I inserted in my original post are a combination of both those options. But they are tedious to position, they tend to move around when you change layout, and they often don't survive a save & re-open. Plus, you only get one per note (and I need two, one before and one after) ; you even get only one per chord for slurs. As a result, one has to put each note in a different layer and manually arrange as many sets of slurs and ties, for every system, in every staff.
I would have hoped for a simpler option, like an articulation. There actually is one, but there too, you only get one per chord.
In reply to Well, I tried of course,… by clementvarier
"I tried both slurs and ties."
As explained already, ties and slurs are completely different:
a tie is an instruction to the player that the note sounds continuously across to the next note at the same pitch
a slur is guidance to the player about how to phrase a series of notes at various pitches
"I would like to specify to the player that they shouldn't re-attack the notes"
Use a tie, not a slur.
"they are tedious to position"
Not true. Ties position themselves very cleverly by default, and in MS4 they even avoid augmentation dotes.
Handbook: https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/editing-notes-and-rests#ties-normal
"you only get one per note (and I need two, one before and one after)"
Not true. If you enter chords from left to right, you can create a following tied chord simply by pressing the letter T on the keyboard. This creates the notes and all the ties with a single keystroke - see measures 3-4 in the treble clef.
"... often doesn't survive a save-and-reopen"
![MS4_ties.jpg]( "MS4_ties.jpg")
Not true. Try it with the attached example score.
In reply to _ I tried both slurs and… by DanielR
Your original post was titled Mini slurs as articulations for cross system drone ?"
I wonder whether you mean: Mini slurs as articulations for cross-staff drone ?"
You can still use a tie, but you have to create the tied notes on the same stave, and then move the second note cross-staff with Ctrl+Shift+DownArrow:
![MS4_cross-staff_tie.jpg]( "MS4_cross-staff_tie.jpg")
In reply to _ I tried both slurs and… by DanielR
I mean no disrespect, as you took the time to answer with many details, but I don't think you really understood what I am trying to do. First, let's clear out that this is not a music theory misunderstanding. I am classicaly trained, I work with pro musicians and ensembles on a regular basis and I do know the difference between a tie, and a slur. I am not trying to boast here, I am far from knowing it all, I am just stating this to encourage your patience. Bear with me on this issue, as it is a bit specific. See, I am not interested in the function of the object, slur or tie, I just want the look of it on the printed score, therefore I would use whichever worked, but none do for me.
I might have expressed myself badly, as English is not my first language. I will try again, better.
First, lets precise that we're dealing with early music, in non-barred form.
I need a discreet, small tie that "hangs" from the starting noteheads, signaling a held drone. Then, at some point in the score, whenever the pitch of the drone changes, I need a small "arriving" tie to hang leftwards, then again a future-facing, right bound little tie to hang after the new noteheads. Ties need a starting point and a landing point to position on the score. I need the object I seek not to behave like this. Because there could be several systems of distance between the departure and the arrival, and things get messy, as all objects created to fill the void are linked together (you can't simply supress the one in the middle). I don't know if that's clear, it's very challenging to explain.
There is this technique of creating a ghost starting point, a note that you hide to only keep the tie. It is the best option available, but, I insist, it is tedious to position, as it recalculates spacing as you move it, even with auto-placement off. It feels like you are fighting the program, and I don't think it should.
I feel like - maybe this is a feature request ? - a set of articulations should do the trick ("arriving tie", "departing tie" & "both", or just the first two) but I haven't figured out the way to input custom articulations into the program (I am no coder).
To conclude, I would like to express my gratitude to the developpers of this wonderful program. Coming from Finale (since 2005 !), this is a very refreshing, easy to use and intuitive tool, with incredible power. The request I am making should not be understood as ranting.
In reply to I mean no disrespect, as you… by clementvarier
I think this issue may be relevant to what you are experiencing. https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/issues/18236
The ties are taking space even though they are invisible. However that issue does not mention a similar behaviour with slurs, but I tested with invisible slurs and again they do take up space.
If that issue looks relevant to your problem you could add a comment to explain your particular use case and to expand the scope to include rests.
In reply to I mean no disrespect, as you… by clementvarier
"I need a discreet, small tie that "hangs" from the starting noteheads, signaling a held drone. Then, at some point in the score, whenever the pitch of the drone changes, I need a small "arriving" tie to hang leftwards, then again a future-facing, right bound little tie to hang after the new noteheads."
You might find the 2019 post titled How to Efficiently Notate "Hanging" Slurs/Ties interesting. There are a number of suggested workarounds (either within the thread or provided as links):
https://musescore.org/en/node/281225
Please be aware that the post pre-dates the launch of MuseScore 4, so some of the suggested workarounds may no longer work or may work differently.
See also a 2021 discussion 'Hanging' ties/slurs in the old Issue Tracker:
https://musescore.org/en/node/318113