measure duration does not change when adding measure marks
I am working on a piece in 6/8 where I added notes longer than the 6/8 time to a measure, and went back using the "measures" pallet to split the measure. When I added the measure mark, musescore still thought the measure was to the end of the initial measure, even though it had been split.. The measure properties showed "6/8" as the nominal duration, and the actual duration as "12/8". Further, a "plus" sign showed up on both treble and bass clef lines at the end. This doesn't seem like the correct behavior - it should show that the two new measures are 6/8 with no timing errors. Am I missing something?
Comments
If you need another measure, add a measure rather than adding notes and then a bar line.
This is done in the ADD tab.
In reply to If you need another measure,… by bobjp
the notes were added after the fact as I was working through a transcription, which is why the issue came up. This doesn't seem like an unlikely case.
In reply to the notes were added after… by sdwarwick
"The measure properties showed "6/8" as the nominal duration, and the actual duration as "12/8"."
This sounds as if you did one of the following (wrong) actions:
a) either you merged two 6/8 measures using Tools > Measures > Join selected measures
b) or you used the Insert note input mode to add notes for a missing 6/8 measure - which will increase the measure duration to 12/8
As pointed out earlier, the correct way is simply to insert an empty 6/8 measure:
1. Do not use Insert note entry mode, just remain in the default (Step time) note entry mode
2. Position your cursor in the measure after the correct notes
3. Press the Insert key (or choose Add > Measures > Insert before selection > 1 )
4 This will provide an empty 6/8 measure where you can add the missing notes
5. All measures remain correctly as actual duration 6/8
In reply to "The measure properties… by DanielR
I did use the insert mode to add notes, which increased the number of beats. I figured that when I added the barline in the middle, the timing would be recalculated and the fact that the timing was correct would be reflected in the display. Having an ability to add barlines without the timing be recalculated seems fundamentally wrong. The "measure properties tab has nominal/actual information. We should have the ability to split measures to make actual=nominal when they are not the same. I don't see a way to do that, This is my concern.
In reply to I did use the insert mode to… by sdwarwick
"I did use the insert mode to add notes"
And two people suggested in earlier posts that you should not use Insert note entry node but instead insert an empty measure which matches the duration of the time signature. Please consider that method.
"We should have the ability to split measures to make actual=nominal when they are not the same. I don't see a way to do that,"
Simple to do:
1. Select the mid-point of your over-length measure.
2. Menu path: Tools > Measures > Split measure before selected note/rest
In reply to I did use the insert mode to… by sdwarwick
If you have a 12/8 measure that really should be two 6/8 measures you should split the measure before the 6th eight note and that will create the necessary barline. See https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/pickup-and-non-metered-measures#spl….
The barlines you add from the palette are just visual. They are useful for example if you want to indicate a 7/8 measure should be considered a 3/8 plus 4/8 by adding a dotted bar line before beat 4.
In reply to You should split the measure… by SteveBlower
This looks like the right answer - thanks!, however it brings up the point that there is no visual cue showing a difference between a visual-only barline and a timing-impacting barline. It would seem that it would be helpful if visual-only barlines have the plus/minus indicators on them that only display when scoring, and should be able to be converted to timing-impacting as needed.
In reply to This looks like the right… by sdwarwick
There Is a visual indication as you mentioned in your initial post. If the measure duration is longer than indicated by the time signature there is a grey "+" next to the ending barline. If the visual only barlines are used for their correct purpose there is no need for any indication. The whole point of the visual only barlines is that they do not change the duration of the measure. You would normally use them to divide a measure with the actual durations equal to the nominal duration. You have abused them to visually correct an incorrectly entered measure.
In reply to There Is a visual indication… by SteveBlower
OK, I understand what you are saying. It would then seem this is purely a problem for me of how the program documents different functions. The "barline" functions can be purely visual, but timing-impacting information is considered in the concept of "measures" This makes sense. However the barline functions also impact the shape and function of "measure" marking lines, which creates the confusion. I think I understand now.
In reply to OK, I understand what you… by sdwarwick
I think another problem is one of definition, and usage. We tend to use the terms "bar" and "measure" interchangeably. So it might seem like if you put a "bar" line in the middle of a "bar", you would get two "bars". Which is visually true. We think less in terms of "measure" lines. Would you think to put a measure line in a bar? Maybe only if you wanted all the drinks to be the same :)
In reply to I think another problem is… by bobjp
bobjp - I think you are speaking exactly to the issue I have been struggling with.. Seems like the "barline" function works on both "bar lines" and "measure lines" and has some differences in function depending on which you are dealing with. I'd rather have a bit more tight method of transitioning between "visual only" and timing-impacting marks, but at least now with the help of our other friends that have responded, I can work around the differing conceptual models :-)
In reply to bobjp - I think you are… by sdwarwick
UK usage "bar" = US usage "measure"
UK "Barline = US "Barline"
"Measure line" i have never come across before. Is it a thing?
In reply to UK usage "bar" = US usage … by SteveBlower
As an aside, I assume SteveBlower and bobjp are native English speakers, maybe sdwarwick too. I'd be interested to know how native speakers are familiar with the differences between UK and US English. I'm not a native speaker (German) and sometimes struggle a bit with the differences :-).
But at least I've already learned what SteveBlower wrote...
In reply to As an aside, I assume… by HildeK
US and UK, 2 nations divided by a common language...
A bit similar to German (Germany) and German (Austria) or even German (Switzerland) (just not the strings in MuseScore, I haven't yet found any differences so far)
In reply to US and UK, 2 nations divided… by Jojo-Schmitz
Aside from having no idea what a semi-quaver is, someone used the term "cut semi-quaver" the other day. Or is it semi quaver? Semiquaver? Argh...I'm just gonna go sit in a corner with my guitar.
In reply to Aside from having no idea… by bobjp
"Quaver" is Britisch English for 8th, "semi-quaver" for 16th. But at "cut semi-quaver" I'm lost too
In reply to "Quaver" is Britisch English… by Jojo-Schmitz
I tried to look it up. No luck. I did figure it out, finally. Cut, as in "cut time" would be half a semi-quaver. 32nd note.
In reply to "Quaver" is Britisch English… by Jojo-Schmitz
'someone used the term "cut semi-quaver"' I wonder what they meant.
In the UK we use (longer to shorter):
breve
semibreve,
minim,
crotchet,
quaver,
semiquaver,
demisemiquaver,
hemidemisemiquaver.
Then we give up - notes shorter than that are ridiculous!
In reply to 'someone used the term "cut… by SteveBlower
So a demi-semi-quaver.
And yes the madness goes further: hemi-semi-demi-quaver (64th) to semi-hemi-demi-semi-hemi-demi-semi-quaver (1024th)
In reply to 'someone used the term "cut… by SteveBlower
you give up there ;-)
"1024th note (semihemidemisemihemidemisemiquaver) stem up" is a string in MuseScore (and SMuFL)
In reply to you give up there ;-) by Jojo-Schmitz
See what I mean about ridiculous!
In reply to See what I mean about… by SteveBlower
Yep
In reply to you give up there ;-) by Jojo-Schmitz
Why don't you (EN) just say 1024th instead of inventing such unpronounceable words? :-)
Shorter, clearer and understandable for everyone in the world, even with little knowledge of English, isn't it?
In reply to Why don't you (EN) just say… by HildeK
Why do we (DE) say Donaudampfschifffahrtskapitänsmützenband ;-)
In reply to Why do we say… by Jojo-Schmitz
I would never use this expression!
It's just a made up word for tongue twister exercises anyway and would never be used in normal speech.
That's what deepl.com makes of it:
"Danube steamboat captain's cap band" - actually understandable in this case.
In reply to I would never use this… by HildeK
Actually is is Donaudampfschifffahrtselektrizitätenhauptbetriebswerkbauunterbeamtengesellschaft, Guinness Book or Records. But indeed (most probably) artificial
However, Rindfleischetikettierungsüberwachungsaufgabenübertragungsgesetz really exists
Longest English word: pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis, as per the Oxford English Dictionary
In reply to Actually is is… by Jojo-Schmitz
Hmm, I have the slight feeling we digress ;-)
In reply to Why don't you (EN) just say… by HildeK
"Why don't you (EN) just say 1024th"
Because we know the correct names for these things. :-}
In reply to "Why don't you (EN) just say… by SteveBlower
LOL!
In reply to LOL! by HildeK
And is the term "crotchet" also used for a hook, a sourpuss or a cranky person just by chance? :-)
> Hmm, I have the slight feeling we digress ;-)
Yes, we do. But it should be allowed occasionally.
In reply to And is the term "crotchet"… by HildeK
This is the definition of what we call "thread drift" :-)