Tie placement of eighth notes is infelicitous particularly with eighth notes
I am working on a score where I prefer the eighth-note beams to be broken (click note, go to "Properties", "Beam" select "no beam" for both notes). Cool. These notes do need to be tied together, so I do that. However, the placement of the tie is inconsistent and is therefore less than felicitous.
The circle (well, square) at "a" in my screenshot is what it should be — I realized that somehow I hit "s" instead of "t", hence the initial discrepancy between the "ties" which led to this post. The same with a star is what happens as a default placement of an actual tie. I'm noticing that ties and slurs are better than in MS3, but they're constantly in the way of stems and dots in a way that looks, well, sloppy, but this is not the right score as I have no examples of where the dot of one note is covered up by a tie in the same or in another voice.
Anyway circled with two stars is what happens when I adjust the tie in Properties (an actual tie, not a slur): it doesn't look quite right, but it's correctly positioned on the y-axis.
Playback is affected, of course, which isn't a problem for me, because I know what's supposed to happen here (and on paper, of course it looks almost exactly like a tie; I'm not sure that a slightly thicker tie is all that noticeable).
Maybe I'm all alone in thinking that the default placement of a tie should be above the stems of eighth notes and not in the way of the flag! I could, of course, put the tie underneath, but having the option to cleanly put the tie above the notes is important to me as well… (I'm on 4.2.1 for Mac, although I suppose that this isn't really a new problem at this point.)
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Comments
So,....2 things come to mind.
I can't tell from you image that there is any need for tied 8th notes. Unless it is personal preference. I think as it is, is harder to read.
I also can see any "tie" in with your score.
In reply to So,....2 things come to mind… by bobjp
I took out the ties because I think that the slur placement is better.
They cannot be quarter notes. (Or at least they shouldn’t be, but really, that’s not the issue! Can we please focus on the issue?)
In reply to I took out the ties because… by luntastonemason
Sorry. the mscz. you posted doesn't seem to be the same as your image.
Also, do lyrics require 8th notes?
But, I prefer ties or slurs be attached to notes. You asked for opinions. If quarter notes could be used, that is an answer to the issue.
In reply to Sorry. the mscz. you posted… by bobjp
It’s not really an answer because the conflict remains.
Now, sure some people clearly don’t share my preference. But the ties are all over the place. The cross-staff tie bug isn’t ready. So my work has looked bad for months. I am running out of patience here.
But even as you prefer a quarter note, and I refuse to use one for reasons that don’t really matter, it’d be nice if you could step back and say “gee, maybe that guy has a point about the clash”.
In reply to It’s not really an answer… by luntastonemason
But it is a clash brought about by your preferences. If you want to see a change, you will need to put together a complete, concise, reproducible plan to present on GitHub. You need a good defense for why this is needed. Not just that you want it this way. I'm only trying to help to tighten this up.
Still waiting for an explanation for the mscz file.
In reply to But it is a clash brought… by bobjp
I am only coming back to this now.
I used SLURS as I said the first time, in the score, because the tie placement sucks. But I don't owe you an explanation.
It is a clash regardless. I really don't like the tone of your response. Instead of helping me, you tried to goad me into changing my mind. I think that this is one of the worst traits in the open-source community. When a transcription is involved, you cannot just change things the way that you see fit.
In reply to I am only coming back to… by luntastonemason
Ties are fundamentally attached to noteheads, it can't be any other way. Above stems, as in your use case, it's really ambiguous and can be confused with slurs.
That said, if that's your preference, and if you're sure you're not creating confusion, it's really trivial and quick to select the tie, and press the up arrow 4/5 times. See:
EDIT: Of course, you have the option of placing the tie below the noteheads (either via Properties panel/"Position", or with the "X" shortcut). In some cases (such as A and E in voice 2), the "default" can create a small collision, but this can be recovered by moving the tie slightly - see the image below (result on the second beat).
This avoids any ambiguity and ensures a clear-cut result.
In reply to I am only coming back to… by luntastonemason
cadiz 1 has given you ideas for what you will need to do.
All of us on the forum are users, just like you. Some try to help when questions come up. You posted an image and a file. You talked about what you didn't like and wanted a fix.
The file you posted had nothing to do with your image. No, you don't owe me an explanation. unless you don't want any help.
Then you say you can't change things when transcription is involved. You never said anything about transcription.
No one here can change MU4. I've given you the steps to do that
In reply to I am only coming back to… by luntastonemason
Maybe I'm all alone in thinking that the default placement of a tie should be above the stems of eighth notes and not in the way of the flag!"
Yes, you may be in a tiny minority with this opinion.
"... Instead of helping me, you tried to goad me into changing my mind."
I think that's a bit unfair. The problem is that any music notation program has to follow a set of engraving rules. These rules are usually based on either the musical experience of the original designer or a published handbook of music notation.
In the case of MuseScore, the original design team adopted the rules published in Elaine Gould's notation handbook Behind Bars. Here's what her handbook says about Ties (page 60):
![Tie_Design_Behind_Bars_p.60.png]( "Tie_Design_Behind_Bars_p.60.png")