Select/text/fingering
In the Fingering palette it's possible to add LH fingerings to the left of a note. When I use Select/text/fingering it gets added above. I thought I might be able to alter this in Properties, but I can't see any options but "Above" or "Below" (which I take to be the staff).
In fact, even when I select/compare the two properties sheets for the LH fingering options (side & above) as they appear in my score, I can't actually see what motivates the behaviour.
Another oddity seems to be that if I drag the fingerings to reposition then AFTER adding via Select/text/menu, the notes don't respace, whereas if I add fingerings via the palette, repositioning them does trigger a respace.
Ultimately what I'd like to achieve is different (customizable?) options for LH and RH fingering. I prefer RH above the staff and LH on the staff, but there are some scores where the other way round is better.
I feel I did this one in Musescore 2, via the Inspector, maybe? But I can't work out how to duplicate it via Properties
Thanks in anticipation
Comments
"In the Fingering palette it's possible to add LH fingerings to the left of a note. When I use Select/text/fingering it gets added above. I thought I might be able to alter this in Properties, but I can't see any options but "Above" or "Below" (which I take to be the staff)."
Yes, but not only that. In fact, there are two sets of LH fingerings in the "Fingerings palette". The first series of numbers is dedicated to keyboards, where the fingering is placed by default above the noteheads. In this case, you can modify the Above/Below position (in the Properties panel, you need to click on the little triangle/"Show More" to see these options appear).
The second series of numbers in is dedicated to guitarists. The fingerings are positioned by default on the left of the notehead. In this case, of course, the Above/Below position is not appropriate! :)
With V4, you may have noticed that a specific "Guitar palette has been added. In this palette, there's only one series of numbers, so it's the one for Guitar (fingerings on the left).
"Another oddity seems to be that if I drag the fingerings to reposition then AFTER adding via Select/text/menu, the notes don't respace, whereas if I add fingerings via the palette, repositioning them does trigger a respace"
I haven't noticed that yet. Perhaps you could attach a short excerpt (a few measures) from a score, stating exactly what you're doing.
EDIT: are you aware of this method to entering fingerings? https://musescore.org/en/handbook/4/fingering#shortcut-fingering
"Ultimately what I'd like to achieve is different (customizable?) options for LH and RH fingering. I prefer RH above the staff and LH on the staff, but there are some scores where the other way round is better."
Offsets can be customized in menu Format / Style / Text styles / Fingering (so, first series of numbers, as explained) , LH Fingering and RH Fingering
In reply to "In the Fingering palette it… by cadiz1
Thanks for that.
It was the "shortcut-fingering" method that lead me to this question, I guess, since it seems to me that that method uses the "Fingering" option i.e. it is above the note. So maybe what I need to understand is how to change that - because what I would like to do is use that method for both LH & RH guitar fingering. Anyway, I'll keep playing around with it. I can "almost" see how to do what I want.
In my perfect word I could use the shortcut method to enter LH & RH at the same time, with RH above the note & LH beside the note, but that doesn't look possible (as I understand the architecture)
In reply to Thanks for that. It was the … by tejjy
The shortcut method documentation suggests that if I start with adding a LH fingering via the palette, I can continue to the next not using SPACE. But actually, that starts playback. It's only if I go into the process via the Select/Text/Fingering option that the SPACE works to advance the cursor, and as set up, that's the wrong kind of fingering.
In reply to Thanks for that. It was the … by tejjy
Further observations; I tried ALT+right to move to the next note, instead of SPACE, but although that moves the focus it doesn't allow me to enter from the text keyboard. And in fact, I notice a visual difference in the way the Select/Text/Fingering option works, in that a little box appears on the score framing the input.
For the life of me I cannot find any reference in the doc to adding a new element to the Select/Text menu, and in truth, there seems to be more going on with the Fingering option than the LH & RH Fingering options, in that it fits into the shortcut mechanism while the others don't.
This should have been titled "Add/Text/Fingering" maybe. Anyway, after playing around thanks to curtiz's response, it seems that what I want is to be able to add two new options to the Add/Text menu, for LH & RH Fingering, so that I can use the spacebar to advance through the score . In a perfect world the mechanism would recognize the difference between the two and when I type "2m" put the 2 and the m in different places, but honestly, if I have to go through the score once for each of the LH & RH, having the keyboard mechanism working for that will make it relatively painless.
In reply to This should have been titled… by tejjy
"The shortcut method documentation suggests that if I start with adding a LH fingering via the palette, I can continue to the next not using SPACE. But actually, that starts playback."
Indeed, alas, I hadn't reread it but the Handbook should be revised on this point. In fact, as you can see on the GIF below: after adding the first fingering, you need to double-click on that fingering to start the process with the Space key (which works perfectly).
"In my perfect word I could use the shortcut method to enter LH & RH at the same time, with RH above the note & LH beside the note, but that doesn't look possible"
Yes, MuseScore isn't smart enough to do this yet! But you'll notice, as I did, that once you've got the hang of it, it's really very quick to go through the score once for each of the LH & RH.
In reply to Yes, alas, I hadn't reread… by cadiz1
Legend! Thank you very much.
i have to say that behaviour is, errrrr, quirky. But it will do the job
In reply to Legend! Thank you very much… by tejjy
In reply to Could you show me a picture… by cadiz1
I have no score done "my own way". Historically I've just used the mouse & palettes for the smallest possible number of crucial sections, but this time i was transcribing a score with so much (necessary) fingering that I was trying to work out a better way. Since the documentation was inadequate I posted the request for help, which you have helpfully provided. I've done my big score by that method (two passes) & it's fine. Sure, it could be better, but it's easy to see why a one-pass mechanism might be difficult to implement (although, by analogy, entering numbers & letters causes different outcomes in Note Entry mode, so it's not unimaginably bizarre).
"quirky" refers to the need to double-click an element entered via a palette to initiate a keyboard input session, particularly with reference to the fact that the superficially analogous "Add/Text/Fingering" works differently. I am now searching the Musescore documentation for details, so I can discover what other palette elements might function in the same way
In reply to I have no score done "my own… by tejjy
"Add/Text/Fingering" works differently.
It doesn't work any differently. You always use the Space bar to move forward.
Except that, via the Add / Text / Fingering menu, it behaves like the first series of numbers in the palette (rather for keyboards) and therefore with placement above the noteheads. For this to be coherent, there should have been two other items in this menu, ie LH fingering, and RH fingering. I can't remember why it wasn't designed that way.
Overall, in MuseScore, double-clicking takes you into Edit mode. It's kind of a hack here to launch guitar fingering input by this way, and there's surely room for consistency improvement.
But I can tell you that this new function was really huge, as I'd been struggling for years to add fingerings with the mouse, fingering by fingering, going from the palette to the score each time. It was hellish. I struggled for three/four years, at least, and it was finally Marc (Sabatella) who implemented this way of doing things.
I was happy like a child! 😂
In reply to "Add/Text/Fingering" works… by cadiz1
It is an enormous improvement; yes, it would have killed me to do this latest score via the palette. (i did some Dyens' scores that way and it was horrendous)
But we'll have to agree to differ 😃 on the meaning of "consistent". If you launch from the menu, you are directly and visibly in input mode. From the palette there is no sign of the possibility of input mode. Sure it's consistent AFTER you get into it, but I don't think I was working that out without your help - which I thank you for again.
As for double-clicking and edit mode in general...double clicking on the dynamics markings doesn't have the same effect. And when you do get into edit mode, as in staff text, hitting the spacebar is a space. There are lots of - call them idiosyncrasies if you prefer.
But look, I'm not criticising; it's a free product and it's very functional. With your help I have improved my next umpteen scores for, I hope, many years. Classical guitar - bit of an edge case, really 🤪
In reply to It is an enormous… by tejjy
"but I don't think I was working that out without your help"
You couldn't guess it, and it's not in the Handbook...
So much for the background: https://musescore.org/en/node/278175#comment-887987
Rereading, I quote: ”I am using guitar LH fingering, but the same applies to all the fingering styles: enter one normally using the PALETTE, MENU, or customized shortcut, then while in text edit mode (double-click the fingering to get there if you didn't use the shortcut)
So it's possible that a change in behavior has been established (I don't know when), since via the menu, the input mode immediately comes into action (and only for Fingering), whereas via the palette, you have to double-click.
I didn't realize this change it because I never went from the Add Menu to Text then down to click on Fingering... Too long and tedious for me. Using the palette was more direct.
In reply to You couldn't guess it, and… by cadiz1
Thanks for the background - i know there have been ongoing debates about the input mechanisms, because it's pretty clear that there are too many & that they are too idiosyncratic. But it is equally clear that there is no easy way to re-architect them without upsetting the main parts of the machinery that everybody knows. This is more-or-less inevitable, i think.
Anyway, perfection is the enemy of the good, they say.
It's a pleasure to have met you :-)