Improve this chrordname
At minimum there needs to be a space between the b9 and 13.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| b9 13_.pdf | 14.73 KB |
Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.
At minimum there needs to be a space between the b9 and 13.
| Attachment | Size |
|---|---|
| b9 13_.pdf | 14.73 KB |
Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.
Comments
Ctrl + Space lets you use spaces within a chord name
In reply to Ctrl + Space lets you use… by elsewhere
Thank you for sharing this facility with me. I works.
Regards,
Wouldn't be the correct spelling C7b9b13 or C7(b9b13)? Or do you want to insert a C7b9add13?
It could be confusing, if there's no indication before the 13.
In reply to Wouldn't be the correct… by kuwitt
It is not a b13, it is a natural 13. Add 13 is way too clumsy.
Ideally, they would be stacked and that way no confusion and in a tighter space.
Regards,
Normally one would not list multiple unaltered extensions - you have both a 7 and a 13. The usual way to write that chord would be C13b9, which avoids the issue entirely. There are also some conventions that do call for multiple unaltered extension to be listed, and these normally use either parentheses or commas or both. For example, C7b9(13) or C7(b9,13). Any of these will format well. But indeed, a space would work to. I wouldn't recommend that over any of the alternatives I mentioned though.
In reply to Normally one would not list… by Marc Sabatella
Good. Thanks.
In reply to Good. Thanks. by xavierjazz
Under normal conditions, (in dominant chords) 13 and b9 shouldn't be used in the same place.
b9 and/or b13 are used for the minor-key signal. example: G7b9(b13) => Cm // G7b9: Bass:G; Chord: f, ab, b, eb
natural 9 and 13 are used for the Major-key signal. example: G7 => C // G7: Bass:G; Chord: f, a, b, e (same as G13)
Notice: In the above examples: 11th degree should be sharp or not used in dominant chords. otherwise the third degree is suspended.
In this case you should show the unusual 13th degree in parentheses:
G7b9(13). => Bass: G; Chord: f, ab, b, e
So the player doesn't get confused.
In reply to Under normal conditions, (in… by Ziya Mete Demircan
I won't go so far as to say 13 and b9 wouldn't normally be used together. Sure, theoretically speaking, b9 suggests a minor key and 13 major. But in major keys it's common to borrow elements of minor key harmony. Sometimes we might borrow both the b13 and b9, bb it taking only one or the other is common too. For instance, a song in F major, C13b9 could be a good choice if the melody features a prominent A.
In reply to I won't go so far as to say… by Marc Sabatella
Exactly.
In reply to I won't go so far as to say… by Marc Sabatella
I use it at some endings and some voicings (without 5th) // see attachment
Theoretically, we can see this chord in a harmonic-major key or on a dim scale. (1)
example1: f, g, a, bb, c, db, e, f <= F harmonic-major -> 5th degree C7b9(13) or C13(b9)
example2: e, f#, g, a, bb, c, db, eb <= on a dim. scale. -> C7b9(13) or C13(b9)
(1) However, a good approach (preparation) should be made when using this chord.
eg: Gm9, C13(b9), // F
or: BbMaj7, C13(b9), // F
In reply to Normally one would not list… by Marc Sabatella
Personally I don't like an unclear 7.
How would you write Maj. 7, 13 in an unclumsy fashion?
In reply to Personally I don't like an… by xavierjazz
In jazz 7 chords almost always include the 13th. The main reason is that this allows for elegant voice leading in the most common sequences: IIm7-V7 (lower the 7 of IIm7 a half tone & you have V7 (with a 13th). In the sequence IIm7b5 V7alt the solution is even simpler: V7alt is identical but a minor 3rd jump up from IIm7b5.
![test.jpg]( "test.jpg")
In reply to In jazz 7 chords almost… by elsewhere
First, almost is not all.
I often have a b13 in my harmony, altered chord.
In reply to First, almost is not all… by xavierjazz
So, lower the e to eb then. You"ll have to move 2 fingers.
In reply to So, lower the e to eb then… by elsewhere
And the b13 would always be indicated in the chord name. I write it G7b13
In reply to Personally I don't like an… by xavierjazz
Cma13. The "ma" is always understood to refer to the seventh. And people know better than to include an 11 even if the chord symbol technically implies one.
In reply to Cma13. The "ma" is always… by Marc Sabatella
But for the record, Cma7(13) is also possible.
In reply to But for the record, Cma7(13)… by Marc Sabatella
Isn't that usually written as CM6/9, ie e g a d?
In reply to Isn't that usually written… by elsewhere
6/9 means no 7 in my circles.
Also, a 6 is not a 13.
In reply to 6/9 means no 7 in my circles. by xavierjazz
What would you call e a b d then? To me it's CM6/9 or E7sus, depending on the context. The difference between 6 & 13 is too subtle for me.
In reply to What would you call e a b d… by elsewhere
What is the root of that voicing? Can you give a context for it?
6 implies under the 7. 13 implies over the 7.
In reply to What is the root of that… by xavierjazz
The root is C (or E). In jazz, the bass player plays the root, so the pianist does not have to (but in the case of the E7sus he does, in this example). I think in terms of voicings, and one hand is not big enough to play a real 13.
![test.jpg]( "test.jpg")
The e a b d sounds admittedly a bit harsh, but that a major 7 (in the right hand) is fully comptible with a M6/9 chord is shown below (first bars of Tenderly)
In reply to The root is C (or E). In… by elsewhere
If you look at your example, you will see that the 1st chord is not the same as the one that you are talking about. The G,Bb,C,F does not have the 7th in it. Your prior example "The e a b d sounds admittedly a bit harsh" is not the same, it would be e,g,a,d which speaks to my point that the 6/9 voicing does not include the 7th.