Adjusting note length adds rests or deletes notes
There's got to be a better way to do this.
I'm trying to pick out tunes on my guitar and enter them in MuseScore 2.0.3. I start by entering notes, usually as quarter notes, since I don't have a good sense of the time yet. Then I play a few measures through, and realize that at some point, I need to adjust because there are actually two eighth notes and three quarter notes in the measure rather than four quarter notes.
So I adjust the first quarter note to an eighth, and now I have a rest between it and the next note. Same when I adjust the second note - two unneeded rests, but there is no room to add the additional quarter note at the end of the measure (now too many beats), and no way to delete the rests. I can cut the later notes out, one at a time, and insert them back in front of the rest, at which time I have multiple unneeded rests at the end of the measure, at which time I can insert the final quarter note in front of them and they disappear.
The opposite occurs when I try to extend a note duration - while adjusting, the last note in the measure is now "too many beats" - but instead of moving it to the next measure, the note is just deleted.
How can I get MuseScore to move the notes forward and back across measure boundaries as needed, instead of adding extra junk and loosing my notes? Or better yet, quit bothering me about time (at least during initial entry) - I can count. Entering and editing notes is a PAIN, and I'm guaranteed that they will not be right the first time (if they were, I wouldn't need an editor).
Frankly, the reason I like MuseScore is that I get a beautiful printout that contains the score AND tab notation, lyrics and chord markings all laid out well on one sheet. But the labor in keying it in is too high, and it is not helping me any in my goal of working out tunes and timing. I essentially have to have the timing perfect before entering it in order to play it back and see if it's right. If not, deleting large chunks and starting over is usually the fastest thing.
BTW, I completely agree with the posts a little while back about going in and out of note input mode. It's confusing and requires too many keystrokes and switching back and forth between mouse and keyboard. Same with note editing, behaves differently whether you are in or out of note input mode, and whether you started by entering a tab fret position or a note (and whether you start with the keyboard or mouse). Sometimes the up and down arrows adjust the note, sometimes they move the entry box, and sometimes they do nothing.
Anyway, any advice would be appreciated. This is a powerful program, but so frustrating that I'm not sure I will ever get good enough at it to be worth the trouble.
Comments
My presumption is that you do not yet know enough about the different ways to achieve your goals by editing notes as you want.
For example: "I need to adjust because there are actually two eighth notes and three quarter notes in the measure rather than four quarter notes.
So I adjust the first quarter note to an eighth, and now I have a rest between it and the next note"
Here is what you can do: eighth.mscz
For other cases, I understand less what want to do. Eg: "Same when I adjust the second note - two unneeded rests, but there is no room to add the additional quarter note at the end of the measure (now too many beats), and no way to delete the rests."
Or, ""The opposite occurs when I try to extend a note duration - while adjusting, the last note in the measure is now "too many beats" - but instead of moving it to the next measure, the note is just deleted" etc.
So ideally, for each case, please attach a short .mscz file (more or less two measures, as my test file above), and describe what you want to get, and how you are doing it. I'm sure someone will show how to do with a better way.
Meanwhile, read this discussion (I think there are some others, but I cannot find right now): https://musescore.org/en/node/123156
In reply to My presumption is that you do by cadiz1
Yes, this post is exactly what I was thinking. And the main objection seems to be that MuseScore wouldn't "know what to do". The whole point is that I don't want it to do ANYTHING. Just push the notes back and forth. Yes, it will screw up some measures, but so does arbitrarily inserting rests and/or deleting notes, which are virtually guaranteed to be wrong. If it stopped doing that, I could adjust one note, and then move over and adjust another note (in the same measure, or a bit later) to correspond to that change, and everything is nicely aligned again, with no duplicate data entry. For multi-voice scores, adjust just the single voice. If the change is to multiple voices, you would have to edit each one anyway, and would still be easier.
Cut and paste doesn't accomplish this.
In reply to Yes, this post is exactly by Comissar
Cut and paste *does* work. You can use the Selection Filter to limit the effect by voice.
The problem is that only you can possibly know *how many* notes you want pushed back. Is it one? Two? Everything to the end of the measure? Everything to the next double bar? Everything to the end of the piece? How could MuseScore possibly know how big of a mistake you are trying to correct, versus how much of what you entered is actually correct as is?
There are programs that attempt to do this, usually guessing "everything to the end of the measure" needs to be corrected, everything else stays as is - which in my experience is wrong way more often than it is right and thus leads to even more work correcting the mess created.
In reply to Yes, this post is exactly by Comissar
Attached is what I'd like to see happen (third line) when adjusting the initial quarter note to an eighth note. It would pull over a hypothetical fifth note from the next measure. Remember, I have NO IDEA where the measures begin and end yet, I'm just playing with sounds, so the idea that MuseScore must keep it straight is not helpful - there is nothing to keep straight yet. At the very least, if the rest was used to pad out the end of the measure instead of immediately after the note, it would save a lot of time.
How do people deal with changing the rhythm of a score? Start over?
In reply to Attached is what I'd like to by Comissar
And yes, I would want it to push everything to the end of the score. All of it. Just like a word processor does. If that is too much, I will make the corresponding adjustment myself, which will probably be in the current or next measure, but might be as much as three or four. It doesn't matter, though. Move it all.
In reply to Attached is what I'd like to by Comissar
You have to realize that what you are describing is entirely unlike how music is normally notated. usually people have some idea of what they are trying to notate before they turn to a notation program. So *most* of the notate entered would already be correct. If one changes one's mind about something or makes a mistake somewhere along the line, most notes should stay right where you put them - you wouldn't have entered them there if you didn't have at least some reason to believe you were entering them in the proper spot. So in the vast majority of cases, literally moving everything to the end of the score would be a disaster. For most people most of the time, If we want to change the rhythm in some part of the piece, we change it *in that part* and that part only, and are extremely thankful MuseScore doesn't screw up the rest of our carefully-entered scores as a result.
What you are describing isn't really a notation program, it's a scratch pad tool. Such a thing could possibly be incorporated into a notation program, but it's rather a different thing. Since you say you have found MIDI programs that work for you, why not simply use them as your scratch pad, then import the result into MuseScore when you are ready to deal with the notation?
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in fact, you were correct in your assumption.
Music notation is normally entered in sequential order, which is to say, you start at the beginning of a measure and add notes of various durations until you get to the end of it. If you enter a series of quarter notes and then start to edit them into something else, you can't expect the program to know what you actually want. MuseScore, like any other notation program, counts beats like Ebenezer Scrooge counted pennies. If you change a quarter note to an eighth note, the program will not shorten the measure by that eighth; it will maintain the length of the measure by inserting a rest to replace the missing eighth note.
My best suggestion to you is to use a sketchbook--manuscript paper and a pencil, and a big eraser--until you've got your music more or less worked out. Once you have that done, light up the computer and transcribe what's in your sketchbook into MuseScore.
In reply to I hate to be the bearer of by Recorder485
<< I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in fact, you were correct in your assumption.
I essentially have to have the timing perfect before entering it.... >>
One could perfectly enter the notes without any consideration for rythm, and adjust rythm afterwards, possibly inserting more notes and deleting other ones also
-- if --
MuseScore had a "draft" mode in which notes would no more be "linked" to a fixed position but simply moved forwards and backwards in function of what you are inserting/modifying/deleting.
I have understood in previous posts from Marc that such a "try my ideas" mode is considered for the future in MuseScore, although it is not planned yet in the developement.
In reply to << I hate to be the bearer of by frfancha
I like the idea of a "draft" mode. I don't need help counting beats; I need help typing and transcribing.
Imaging if you had a word processor wherein every time you wanted to correct a misspelling, you had to re-enter the entire paragraph, because "English works in paragraphs". Sounds an awful lot like a Linotype machine, where you had to replace an entire line if you wanted to change one character. Yes, people used to do that, but that was decades ago.
In reply to I like the idea of a "draft" by Comissar
You don't have to re-enter anything. If you want to change the length of a note and have some number of subsequent notes move earlier in time to compensate, simply select the notes you want moved - only *you* can possibly know how many you want moved, MuseScore cannot possibly guess - then cut and paste them.
but it is true that if you make *lots* of such errors, then having to do this would be a drag. So indeed, notation programs tend to not be good fits for the type of workflow you describde, where you want to jot down pitches with literally no idea what the rhythms are. Much better to at least get close to the right rhythms in your head first.
In reply to You don't have to re-enter by Marc Sabatella
So what would be a good type of program to handle my situation? I'm a guitar player; I don't have a keyboard or MIDI equipment, and if I had everything figured out already, I wouldn't need any software anyway - I would just play it.
In reply to So what would be a good type by Comissar
I just tried denemo, and found that from an edit and entry point of view, it works in a way that seems natural to me. There is no note entry mode, no measure enforcement (but measure warnings), and notes can be inserted, deleted, or adjusted at any time with minimal key strokes or mouse clicks, and everything just slides.
The obvious downside? No guitar tab support that I can find (a deal breaker for me), and it does not support .mscz files. But it shows that other entry modes are viable.
No doubt there are huge differences that I'm ignoring, but I don't actually want the program to do all that much. Easy entry of a single voice plus lyrics, a simple playback to test, some basic key transposition, ability to show both score and guitar tabs together, and a pretty typesetter for the final result. So if the problem is that MuseScore is not the right program for me, I'd appreciate advice on what else to look at.
In reply to So what would be a good type by Comissar
I'm not sure what problem you are trying to solve. The whole point of MuseScore is to produce printed sheet music. Whether you have everything figured out already or not is irrelevant - if you want printed sheet music, you want MuseScore whether it is figured out already or not. If you don't want printed sheet music, then you don't need MuseScore.
In reply to I'm not sure what problem you by Marc Sabatella
The problem I am trying to solve is the laborious entry effort for even the simplest little tunes. I absolutely want attractive printed sheet music as the final product, but not with this much work. What I'm looking for is a word processor for music, and then to print out the results. The entry is the hard part (see the note following from frfancha) - it doesn't sound like I'm doing it wrong, there is just no easy way to edit.
If all I cared about was something to print pretty, I could export to Lilypad. And Denemo proves that easy entry is possible; I was able to enter things in Denemo in a few minutes that took a half hour to get right in MuseScore, and didn't spend any time doing searches of the manual. If I could export from one to the other, I'd have it made.
One nice feature for me in MuseScore is tying the score to guitar tabulature. I don't see that in other programs, but haven't studied that extensively.
Are there other programs that export to the MuseScore file format? Or are there other programs that I should look at that might be more appropriate for what I want to do?
In reply to The problem I am trying to by Comissar
Entering simple tunes is easy, as is entering complex tunes - *if* you enter the rhythms correctly. The problem isn't that note input is difficult, it is that the specific way you are trying to do it simply is not very efficient. MuseScore, like most notation programs. expects you to have the rhythms more or less figured out when you enter the notes, because when you enter a note, it is assumed you really do want it there at that particular time position and don't want it to change later just because you made a mistake you need to correct somewhere else. When you use MuseScore the way it was designed to be used, it is incredibly efficient.
Anyhow, as I said earlier, if you have some other program you like as a sort of "scratch pad" for figuring out rhythms, use it, then export the results to MIDI - or, better, MusicXML - and then import into MuseScore.
In reply to Entering simple tunes is by Marc Sabatella
And if you make a mistake? That's supposed to be the beauty of computers: correcting mistakes is not a nightmare. I don't understand digging in on making MuseScore a linotype machine rather than a word processor for music. I realized two quarter notes should have been half notes, and a few other quarter notes should be eighth notes, but my lyrics disappear when I try to fix them. Being perfect out of the gate is an absurd idea for this purpose.
In reply to And if you make a mistake?… by Wordsmith818
If you make a mistake, only you know the extent of your mistake, so only you know which notes you need moved in order to correct them. So, simply select the notes you want moved and move them directly, using cut and paste. Works like a charm, and lyrics will come along for the ride as well. Lyrics also stay put when you change the duration of a note (select and press new duration). So there is no need to get things perfect the first time; MuseScore has a full set of editing features.
If you need further assistance, please start a new post (this one is quite old, and long, and meanders so much that it's hard to follow new sub-threads) and attach your score. If you describe more precisely what changes you are trying to make, we're happy to help guide you!
In reply to You don't have to re-enter by Marc Sabatella
<< If you want to change the length of a note and have some number of subsequent notes move earlier in time to compensate, simply select the notes you want moved - only *you* can possibly know how many you want moved, MuseScore cannot possibly guess - then cut and paste them. >>
Yes Marc, cut and paste works perfectly.
But consider the difference for a simple scenario (described hereafter) between:
-a mode "insert" in which everything in the voice just move forwards and backwards up to the end of the score according to what you are inserting and deleting
-the current possibility with cut&paste
Scenario:
Existing bar with 4 quarter notes in voice 1. You want to make the first one a dotted quarter and the last one a quaver (either because you're writing the music and want to change something, or you are just copying an existing score and made a typo, whatever).
In the "insert" mode (which doesn't exist), you would only have to 'dot' the first note and reduce the fourth one.
So:
-click (to select the first note)
-[.] (the full voice is moved a 1/8th up to the end of the score)
-click (to select the 4th one)
-[4] (to make it a quaver) (the full voice comes back in its original length)
=> that's 4 actions, 2 clicks and 2 'one key'.
In current MuseScore possibilities, the same scenario with cut&paste requires:
-select the second note (1 click)
-shift+right key to add the third note to the selection (or shift click the third note) (1 double keys)
-F6 to call selection filter if not already displayed (1 key)
-3 clicks to deselect voice 2, 3 and 4 (3 clicks)
-here ctrl-X won't work immediately, you have to give focus to the score again ==> ATTENTION only click on the tab title, if you click on the score you lose your selection! (1 click)
-ctrl-X to cut the selection (1 double key)
-a rest replaces the selection: press [4] to split it in 1/8th (1 key)
-right key to move the selection where you want ot paste (1 key)
-paste your selection (that reduces the last note to the desired quaver at the same time) (1 double key (ctrl+v))
-click (to select the first note) (1 click)
-[.] (1 key)
The cut&paste scenario requires then:
13 actions: 6 clicks, 4 keys, 3 doubles keys - selection filter included,
8 actions: 2 clicks, 3 keys, 3 double keys - if selection filter was already set
So, at least 8 actions + some "thinking" to know where to cut and paste, compared to 4 actions with no "thinking" in the "insert" mode.
Or is there a quicker way to use in the cut&paste scenario?
In reply to I hate to be the bearer of by Recorder485
Some MIDI programs do not seem to have this limitation, but it seems silly to have to enter in a MIDI program and then export to MuseScore.
Any program that requires one to do all the thinking on paper and then input into the program afterwards is severely crippled. That turns MuseScore into a typesetting program for scores - not helpful creatively at all.
In reply to Some MIDI programs do not by Comissar
Ummm...in case nobody ever mentioned this to you, MuseScore is a 'typesetting program for scores.' It is not a 'creative' program for people who don't know what they want to write. Sorry about the ironic tone, but you seem to be complaining that a washing machine doesn't do the supper dishes properly.
Comparisons between a scorewriting program and a word-processing program fail fairly quickly. The fact is, music notation and text typography are fundamentally different, because each musical element has two distinct properties--duration and pitch--while text elements only have one--graphic length. When computerised photo-typography took over from hot metal in the 1970s, the need to re-cast an entire slug for each correction disappeared...but that does not change the facts of music typography, which is much more complex.
Every great composer in history has sketched out his musical ideas in rough form before committing them to a finished manuscript. Why? Because until you know what you want to write, you can't write it in coherent form. Coherent musical notation is based on the concept of measures containing a certain number of beats (subdivided as needed). That is why music uses time signatures (something that does not exist in any analagous form in text typography). All modern scorewriting programs are based on this same principle. MuseScore is a scorewriting program; it is not a word-processor or a 'dishwasher'.
There are proposals in the MuseScore community to create a 'scratch-pad' or 'draft' mode which would enable what you seem to want, but this would require a completely new perspective on how the basic code of the program is structured, so it may take a while to implement. Imagine if someone asked you to re-design the interior of a dishwasher so you could hang underwear and socks on racks intended for plates and teacups....
In reply to That turns MuseScore into a by Recorder485
Please read the paragraph "Insert mode" on http://www.sibeliusblog.com/news/dorico-is-here-a-review/2/.
It begins by:
I must confess something. I never understood the call from some users for Sibelius to allow notes to be inserted at some point in existing music, shuffling further to the back everything that follows. Maybe – I smugly thought – you should not input music unless you are sure what you want. Boy, was I wrong.
In reply to Please read the paragraph by frfancha
I never said a 'draft' or 'scratch-pad' mode was a bad idea; I've argued in favour of it many times. What I said was:
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but in fact, you were correct in your assumption.
Perhaps I should have added '...for the moment...' to the middle of that phrase, but as there is no indication from the dev team as to when such a draft mode might see the day, I didn't see the point in tantalising a new user with something that is unlikely to appear for years yet. Instead, I went on to suggest using pencil and MS paper to rough out his ideas, which is a perfectly reasonable solution to the problem (although not one he appears to like).
In that blogpost, the new program shows the ability to move the cursor and then backspace over the first element to the left, rather than what MuseScore does, which is undo the last-executed command, no matter where the cursor is. This is interesting, but it isn't that complicated to use cut and paste to do the same thing. As a matter of fact, it is entirely possible to do creative musical doodling directly on MuseScore, but the user has to be willing to edit his melodic/harmonic doodles once he gets a firm idea of how he wants it to sound. This editing can be done in quite a few ways, and it's not that hard to learn, but the OP is apparently not willing to do this and states he wants 'a word processor for music'.
I suspect that he may have forgotten the frustrations of learning to use WP software for the first time.
In reply to Please read the paragraph by frfancha
I will add: I also am perfectly in favor of a scratch pad mode. I am simply pointing out that the requirements of that type of editing are very different from "normal" editing. In normal editing, if I change something about a note, I want only that note to be changed. Changing the pitch of a note doesn't affect any properties of any other notes nor should it; changing the duration of a note doesn't affect any properties of any other notes nor should it. Only in a scratch mode would you want a duration change to *also* move subsequent notes earlier in time.
I think also that in practice, most of the time you would *not* want literally all notes for the rest of the piece moved earlier. This would make the scratch pad mode useless as a way of editing just a portion of a mostly-completed piece. If you wish to re-do measures 5-8, this should not have any effect whatsoever on measure 9 to the end. So it would be great to be able to specify this. The Dorico example from the Sibelius blog actually shows exactly why this would be frustrating. The example conveniently shows a case where literally everything to the "end" of the piece is wrong, because he actually hadn't finished entering notes and had only gone a couple of measures past the point of the error. If you wish to correct such an error somewhere in the middle of a piece - or otherwise make a change for which that "insert mode" might seem to make sense, I would absolutely want a way to protect the erest of my score from the damage this command would otherwise do.
I'm thinking what would make sense is to begin the scratch pad mode by selecting the region you want to edit (default might be current measure). The contents of that region would be copied to the scratch pad, and then you can do whatever you like to that region safe in the knowledge the rtest of your piece will not be adversely affected. Edits in the scratch pad would be more "graphical" in nature - deleting a note doesn't replace it with a rest but instead leaves you with literally one fewer beat than you started with, and everything after that within the scratch pad shifted to the left. MuseScore could show you the current position of barlines but not really make a big deal of the measure structure, so notes flow across barlines seamlessly as you insert or delete notes. Maybe you could even enter the barlines manually. When you choose to exit the scratch pad, MuseScore would warn you if you have too few or too many beats in any given measure and give you options to correct it or accept the "irregular" measure. Something like that.
Anyhow, the point is, a scratch pad mode is a fine tool, but it's not really how I would normally want things to work. If it *only* worked for the current measure, it would be not unlike Finale's entry modes, but I know from many years of experience with both programs that the MsueScore model is more predictable, more efficient, and less frustrating in the long run. Either model feels weird *at first* if you are expecting the other, but even after a decade of using Finale regularly i continued to find that aspect of it extremely frustrating, whereas I became completely comfortable with MuseScore's model within weeks. No way would I want to be forced to go back.
In reply to I will add: I also am by Marc Sabatella
I think we are beating a dead horse here. I asked whether there was an easier way to do this, and apparently in MuseScore there is not. Then I have been told that what I want is silly and not "the way music works" as if that was somehow a fundamental restriction on how editors had to work - itself silly, as the end result would be exactly the same. I and others have pointed out the labor of editing this way, and other programs that do work differently, so apparently some music "works differently" or something. Regardless, a rewrite of MuseScore to make me happy is not in the offing.
I get that different people need different things, and that perhaps MuseScore isn't right for me. So, for the third time, I'll ask - is there another program that might be better for what I want to do? Or which might allow import to MuseScore?
All, thank you for your feedback.
In reply to I think we are beating a dead by Comissar
Any program which can export a MusicXML file can be used in conjunction with MuseScore. Note that many formatting properties are stripped from the files in the conversion process, so you'll have to re-do that by hand.
Good luck.
In reply to I think we are beating a dead by Comissar
No one said what you want is silly or that it isn't how music works. We are just explaining it is not something that matches well with how *MuseScore* works. It isn't designed to be a general purpose musical scratch pad but rather a notation program. Some day maybe some sort of scratch pad functionality might be added.
Once again, any program that you have foudn that works for you should be perfectly capable of interfacing with MuseScore if it can export to either MIDI or MusicXML. You mentioned a couple of programs you like, just check their documentation to see if either of those formats are supported.
Another way to help achieve what you want is to record yourself playing the tune and then count it out as it plays back. Mark in key notes at the start of measures and then fill in the rest. It might be tempting to record yourself and then make a MIDI out of it for import into MuseScore but your timing would have to be really perfect for that to work.
In reply to Another way to help achieve by underquark
I can't play it - I'm still trying to figure it out. That's a worse solution than entering it in a MIDI program and exporting it. Perhaps useful in some circumstances, but not for what I am doing.
In reply to Another way to help achieve by underquark
It works great for me if I'm really careful. But I'm getting 95% rather than 100%. And the 5% is really really hard to fix, because of the lack of this insert thing. But this 5% is easy to fix, if only we have the delete thing.
But many people here are dead set against it. Perhaps because of all the work involved in coding it. So I would like to make a different request instead. A poor-man's substitute for an insert mode. An INSERT key macro. Each time we press the INSERT key, it automatically cuts everything from the current cursor position to the end of the score, inserts a rest (of whatever the currently selected duration is), and then paste it back. The user can then overwrite that rest with whatever note is wanted.
The corresponding DELETE macro works similarly. Press the DELETE key, the cursor advances one note to the right (as if you pressed the right-arrow key), selects everything from that to the end of the score, cuts that, deletes the note to the left, and then paste back everything. And you've deleted one note, and there is no rest in that space.
In reply to It works great for me if I'm by bobq
I think it would almost never be the case in real world situation that you literally want everything to the end of the score moved. More often it is the case that it would just be the current measure. So I think that makes more sense as a default for an operation like this. But better still would be if you could select *exactly* which notes you want moved, then have some command to insert a note of a specified duration in front of the selection. Because probably the most common case is that it something *less* than or a little *more* than exactly one measure.
In reply to I think it would almost never by Marc Sabatella
That is because everyone is ignoring the use case, which is transcription. If you do not have a clear delineation for the end of each measure, entry is extremely frustrating, with every feature of MuseScore actively working against the user. All it takes is missing a beat somewhere while transcribing, and the ENTIRE SCORE is then wrong. Those of you with a perfect ear for rhythm may look down on those of us that need time to get it right, but there you have it. Unless I want to pause a recording every measure to get length of each note exactly right from the start, there is no way to make this work.
By the comments this topic has received, over a long period of time, it appears that this use case is not one that the bulk of the user community has any interest in, or even believes exists. So I've given up on MuseScore. It's a shame, since it is so good in so many other ways, but after having wasted many hours trying to enter trivial tunes, I've given up and moved on to other programs where I can actually get some work done.
In reply to That is because everyone is by Comissar
<< That is because everyone is ignoring the use case, which is transcription. >>
I don't ignore it because it is exactly my problem also, noting music from recordings of folk music.
<< If you do not have a clear delineation for the end of each measure, entry is extremely frustrating>>
Indeed. But developement in MuseScore is done on a volunteer basis and the product is free so the frustrating aspect should be balanced taking that into account ...
Let's hope that the insert mode of Dorico helps to convince of the necessity of it.
In reply to That is because everyone is by Comissar
I do a ton a of transcribing as well. But in my experience certificate, errors in transcribing seldom lead to the entire score being wrong from that point, because what normally happens is you get that particular phrase wrong (off by a bear), but get the starting point for the next phrase correct. That's because one is normally aware of where "1" is. So in fact, it is precisely the case of transcribing errors where it most often happens that the notes needing to be moved are neither exactly one measure not everything to the end of the score, but some group of notes MuseScore cannot guess.
In any case, even if it does happen to be all notes to end of score that you need to move in some particular case, it's still extremely simply to move them via cut and paste.
In reply to I do a ton a of transcribing by Marc Sabatella
<< what normally happens is you get that particular phrase wrong (off by a bear), but get the starting point for the next phrase correct >>
Yes that is exactly what happens.
But it doesn't mean that you need to indicate the starting point of phrase N+1 in each and every insert/delete manipulation of phrase N, because when you have finished to correct phrase N the starting point of N+1 would be at the right place again. So letting MuseScore moving everything up to the end of the score in insert mode is not a problem.
Nevertheless, I follow you that when you transcribe recordings with very unclear rythms in which only some starting points are clear, it could be nice to be able to "mark" these points in the score as "fixed", meaning in insert mode MuseScore moves everything up to the next "fixed" point.
But a simple insert mode without that possibility would already be very much appreciated.
The isn't directed at one person but to all those who have posted in similar threads. And it isn't directed to anyone who only posted once asking for a feature but to those who repeatedly reply about MuseScore's "failings".
To everyone wishing an "Insert Mode" or whatever, yes this would be useful but it is not essential to the entry of music and MuseScore is not conspiring against you because you fail to check that you are entering the music correctly until the end of a complex score.
Consider building a wall. If you were sensible you would check every so often that you were placing your bricks in the correct place and you would be prepared to undo a small section and fix it if you made a mistake. You would not expect to just keep laying bricks one after the other until you got to the end of the wall, realised that you had made a mistake and then curse the brick manufacturer because there was no facility to insert a brick and have the others all move magically to the right.
There is, in any case, a reasonable method to move segments of music and that is Cut and Paste.
So, don't use MuseScore if it doesn't suit you but don't whine about it as it is free and developed by volunteers who are genuinely trying to develop a program that allows the creation of very high quality sheet music.
In reply to The isn't directed at one by underquark
Nice analogy. Only cut and paste doesn't work too well with bricks in a wall ;-)
In reply to Nice analogy. Only cut and by Jojo-Schmitz
No, but there is satisfaction to be had in using my 20lb hammer.
In reply to No, but there is satisfaction by underquark
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In reply to No, but there is satisfaction by underquark
Been there, done that ... and cursing the brick layer, not the manufacturer ;-)
In reply to The isn't directed at one by underquark
My comments were not aimed at the developers - I have been a developer myself, and realize that it's mostly unpaid time and effort, and that one prioritizes features based on effort, personal interest and user community demand. It was more about the number of posts that said, in essence, "nobody would ever want to do that", when clearly at least some people do want to, although perhaps not enough to warrant the effort. And it has been helpful for me to hear people point out features or suggest alternative ways to solve the problem with the program as it stands today, which I appreciate.
In reply to The isn't directed at one by underquark
For me, the brick analogy, and also the word processor analogy both are missing the point.
Whatever the usecase, I have to enter durations (rhythm) AND pitch (melody).
If you are a very good keyboard player, you may just record both in realtime.
Otherwise MuseScore basically wants me to enter the rhythm first, and then enter the melody in a second pass (Re-Pitch. I can easily understand that this way is easier to implement.
However, for transcribing music, this is not necessarily the right approach - at least not for me. I am a guitar player, and when transcribing I really focus completely on the melody (and the best fingering). If i have written that down, I can easily play along with the original. Adding the rhythmic details is just a bonus (guitar solo rhythms are often too weird to write down correctly anyway). So for this usecase, I really prefer to enter the melody first, and then adjust the rythm later in a second pass (think of it as a 'Re-Rhythm' mode).
This is very different from editing a few notes in a complex score, where you would worry about affecting the rest of the score. I would be happy with all approaches, there. The 'Copy and Paste' strategy to 'move' notes around is completely unusable in this approach.
Sure, I can just continue to transcribe everything on paper, first (and probably continue not to digitally layout it at all). But transcribing the rhythm first - that just doesn't work for me.
I still think 'Re-Rhythm' would be a useful alternative input method allowing to cover 'melody first' scenarios. And wouldn't it be great if I can start from e.g. a musical draft and proceed to the polished layout without changing programs?