Why is concert pitch on by default?
I almost just posted a bug, having started a new score in the nightly and noticed the incorrect ottava clef for Contrabassi. I don't think I've ever seen a score published in concert pitch, so it immediately threw me off. It's a really good tool to use when you're writing, but I think having it on by default is going to lead to more people than just me knee-jerk assuming the score is bugged. Scores should look as expected at first glance, then people can turn on the option or not themselves...
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Concert pitch is off by default in the nightly I downloaded about 2 days ago. I wonder why you get a different result than I do.
I used the default Concert Orchestra and also chose my instruments and concert pitch was turned off for both.
In reply to Concert pitch is off by… by mike320
ah, and I forgot to post which nightly, of course. MuseScoreNightly-2018-11-27-1742-master-2ad0757
And I looked at Concert Orchestra, you're right, the pitch is default off there. It's on for the classical orchestra.
I actually couldn't see the difference from the 'choose template' page, as all it displays is a thumbnail title page for both.
So two things, then - templates need to show two pages if there is a title page, and concert pitch really shouldn't default to on for the classical orchestra. It is not obvious via language what the difference between a concert or a classical orchestra is. The concert orchestra really ought to be renamed either 'Symphony Orchestra', 'Full Symphony Orchestra', or 'Romantic Orchestra'. That last one is a little iffy, but anyone who knows music history would immediately understand it had trombones and more percussion than timpani.
As it is, it is really confusing. And it's close to the first thing a new person would encounter in MS3. Or even a veteran.
In reply to ah, and I forgot to post… by Laurelin
I think all of the orchestral templates should default to concert pitch off. I guess I never really noticed the difference before.
I do remember having to turn concert pitch off, and it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on. When I had an atonal piece I would add a key signature to a transposing instrument and undo it after I figured out if I needed to click the Concert Pitch button. I finally figured it out.
In reply to I think all of the… by mike320
You wrote:
...it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on.
The tool tips should help, but don't:
The image above is from MuseScore 2.3.2:
Current tool tip text is shown on the left. On the right is displayed a more meaningful tool tip text.
The development builds have a slightly different color scheme, but show the same (wrong) text.
Regards.
In reply to You wrote: ...it took me a… by Jm6stringer
Well, the turn on/off is pretty obvious, it is a button, pressed is on, depressed is off, that's how buttons work. Thet toolTip just shows what that button would do, if pressed.
In reply to Well, the turn on/off is… by Jojo-Schmitz
You wrote:
Thet toolTip just shows what that button would do, if pressed.
That's what I thought.
So, as the image above shows, the tool tip shows 'Display in concert pitch' even if already in concert pitch.
So how does that show what the button would do if pressed?
If already in concert pitch, the tooltip should say 'Turn off concert pitch' - i.e. what that button would do, if pressed.
Scenarios:
1. Concert pitch is off - tool tip says 'Display in concert pitch' (what the button would do, if pressed) - press the button - the result is that concert pitch displays. Expected result.
Well, the turn on/off is pretty obvious
In the development build, choose the 'Dark' theme and toggle the Concert pitch button on/off.
The faint outline is not pretty obvious; and the tooltip, which should show what that button would do, if pressed, is misleading.
Regards.
In reply to Thet toolTip just shows what… by Jm6stringer
again, the tooltip shows what happens if the button gets pressed (and shows what happens if it is presse already too, there's no contradiction).
Of course on an unpressed botton it does not do what the tooltip say it would do when pressed.
In reply to again, the tooltip shows… by Jojo-Schmitz
Of course on an unpressed botton it does not do what the tooltip say it would do when pressed.
Unless, the button shows this (truthful) tip:
![Tooltips Windows.png]( "Tooltips Windows.png")
Above, it doesn't matter what state the button is currently in.
Thus, in MuseScore it should be labelled more precisely: "Toggle concert pitch".
(Since it applies to both states - 'concert pitch on'; and 'concert pitch off'.)
Regards.
In reply to Of course on an unpressed… by Jm6stringer
Only "Togggle Concert Pitch" makes the button ~50% wider. But as part of the tooltip this would work (and it is in the accessibility text already IIRC, so screen readers would tell)
In reply to Only "Togggle Concert Pitch"… by Jojo-Schmitz
I don't know if it's possible in QT, but why not write on the button "Concert Pitch On" when the button is pressed and "Concert Pitch Off" when not, showing the current state.
In reply to I don't know if it's… by mike320
It should be possible
In reply to Only "Togggle Concert Pitch"… by Jojo-Schmitz
Indeed, I meant "Togggle Concert Pitch" for the tooltip.
Not for the Concert pitch button.
EDIT: The Windows Preview pane and Details pane buttons do not mention 'show', 'hide', or even 'toggle' for that matter, either. It's in the tooltips.
In reply to Indeed, I meant "Togggle… by Jm6stringer
I was floating another idea. Changing the tool tip to explain what pressing the button would do is still a good idea.
In reply to I was floating another idea… by mike320
For the concert pitch button, changing the tool tip to explain what pressing the button would do, was needed since a long time ago. (The other toolbar buttons are not so prone to on/off misinterpretation.)
Anyway, here's the behavior...
In MuseScore 2.3.2:
Dark theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a darker color (unlike the other toolbar buttons - turn blue)
Light theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a lighter color (same as the other toolbar buttons)
In MuseScore 3.0.0:
Dark theme - Concert Pitch on - difficult to discern, although the button shows an outline,
Light theme - Concert Pitch on - displays a darker color (same as the other toolbar buttons)
So you can see that 2.3.2 light theme displays light button presses, and 3.0.0 light theme displays dark button presses. As long as it's consistent, it doesn't matter that it changed from 2.3.2 to 3.0.0.
Using the dark theme, the Concert pitch button is the one that's inconsistent with the other buttons.
Now...
![Toolbar color fix.PNG]( "Toolbar color fix.PNG")
With MuseScore 3 in the pipeline, here's how the concert button should display:
Since the other toolbar buttons turn blue when activated, the Concert pitch button should follow suit.
Regards.
In reply to You wrote: ...it took me a… by Jm6stringer
The tool tip would have been nice, but for some reason my mind wanted the button to do the opposite of what it does. I'm over it, but a meaningful tool tip might help others.
In reply to The tool tip would have been… by mike320
Earlier you wrote::
...it took me a while to realize what the button looked like when it was on and off. I always looked at the key signatures to determine if concert pitch is on.
Well... check this out:
![Tooltips MuseScore 3.png]( "Tooltips MuseScore 3.png")
![ON OFF.png]( "ON OFF.png")
Reminds me of
That's why a tooltip associated with the current condition of the button would be most helpful.
I do understand that the button is activated when it's color changes (from the background color).
However, in MuseScore 3, the concert pitch button does not turn the same color as the other buttons (blue) when the dark theme is selected.
In reply to Earlier you wrote:: ...it… by Jm6stringer
don't use the dark theme then, it's main/only purpose is to please Werner ;-)
In reply to don't use the dark theme… by Jojo-Schmitz
😂
In reply to ah, and I forgot to post… by Laurelin
Well, it's been that way in 2.3.2, and probably long before that. And now also in 3.0.
You may be right that this is wrong though, please file reports in the tracker. for both, the concert pitch and the renaming
My GUESS would be that the file was saved that way. Save it with the concert pitch off and that should work.
In reply to My GUESS would be that the… by xavierjazz
These are the default templates, we can't change them.
In reply to These are the default… by mike320
You can't save a template???
In reply to You can't save a template??? by xavierjazz
You can't replace the templates that come with the program. You can add more templates, but the ones with concert pitch turned on will still be there.
In reply to You can't replace the… by mike320
Aha.
In reply to You can't replace the… by mike320
Of course you can (provided you can get root/Administrator access), it is not recommended though, as the next update may overwrite it again.
Returning to the original question:
Whether one wants concert pitch on or off by default probably depends in large part on whether one is copying existing scores (which are virtually always transposed, so you want it off) or composing new ones (which virtually everyone prefers to do at concert pitch, so you want it on).
That said, concert pitch is off by default when first starting MuseScore. It is off by default when creating a new score "from scratch" (using "Choose Instruments" in the Create New Score wizard). If you choose a template, then however that particuar template was saved will determined the default. Looks like some of the default templates have it on, others have it off, and that's not good. I see an issue has been filed, so hopefully that is addressed for the next update But meanwhile, I thought it useful to explain how this works.
Since a tempalte is a plain text MSCX file, if you have admin privilege on your computer, you should be able to edit the file actualy incldued with MueScore, but I don't recommend it. Instead, if you want a workaround for now, just toggle the option then save it to your own Templates folder and use that.