Breaths Have Become Crazy!
Hi there,
So I was wanting to add a breath mark to the Treble and Bass clefs for a certain piece of music, and noticed that the automatic placement of it was not the same as in previous versions of MuseScore - rather than being hooked in the middle of the top line of the measure, it is instead placed above the measure and a bit too far to the right. It also looks different.
No matter, though - I figured I'd just move the breath mark manually to be hooked as before instead of above the bar. Of course, due to automatic placement - moving it creates an even wider gap between the two notes where the breath is. When I try to move the Bass clef breath as well, it creates even wider gaps and the measure re-sizes itself constantly, so I can't even match the two breath marks and keep them in line.
So I figured turning off automatic placement would fix this problem. Boy, was I wrong! The measure length is increasing and decreasing and the breath marks are moving around wherever they seem to want themselves to be. It really is completely berzerk. Sort of disappointing, as I feel I have a lot less control over doing things than before despite the added features. Is there a way to get manual control again over these breath marks???
Thanks,
-G
EDIT: Upon doing more experimentation, it would appear that adjusting the Y co-ordinates of breath marks seem to indirectly cause movement in the X co-ordinates on the score, but no change of the X co-ordinates in the actual co-ordinate input. This happens each time the Y co-ordinates are adjusted - consequently, the breath mark will just wander off of its own accord as you try to adjust it more and more. I'm fairly confident that this is a bug.
EDIT to the EDIT: Actually, exploring more...it seems that if you edit the co-ordinates of a breath in any way at all and then edit anything else anywhere on the score (e.g. the length of an eighth note bar), the breath marks will just go crazy and wander off.
Comments
There are indeed known issues with manual position of breath marks, see #284046: Breaths & Pauses accumulate offset and #283690: For breath marks, automatic placement is still active, although disabled
But FWIW, my recollection is the new default position was by popular request and is considered more correct.
In reply to There are indeed known… by Marc Sabatella
Ah OK.
FWIW in return, I managed to get around the issue by making the breath marks the last thing I add to the score, selecting them all at once, and then inputting the new location numbers directly into the inspector for all of them simultaneously. It seems to work.
Unfortunately, I don't like the new default position - readers of the score can't pick up on the fact that there's a breath mark there because it's location is so unnatural and almost invisible. The previous one I thought was far better. :) It would be nice to be able to set defaults for little things like this for all scores somehow.
In reply to Ah OK. FWIW in return, I… by Gidoza
You wrote:
The previous one I thought was far better.
Hmm... Do you have an image?
![Breath.png]( "Breath.png")
I see this:
To me, they look the same, although I always thought a breath mark should be placed just above the staff - not touching it.
From Esential Dictionary of Music Notation by Gerou and Lusk:
![Breath text.png]( "Breath text.png")
Regards.
In reply to You wrote: The previous one… by Jm6stringer
Indeed, you are (mostly) correct. There had been talk about changing this, and I guess I just assumed from the mention of a change here that it must have happened, but it seems not - the default position is the almost the same as always. It's a fraction of an sp higher. Apparently, this change may have been to make the Bravura version of the breath symbol be positioned above the line (see the musical font setting in Format / Style). I gather the Emmentaler version may have been deliberately designed to cross the line, not really sure.
In reply to Indeed, you are (mostly)… by Marc Sabatella
Hi there,
So yes, I can confirm that Bravura does put the breath mark above the line, while Emmentaler places it on the line, as the picture shown in my attachment. I definitely like the Emmentaler variation better - it's more noticeable and doesn't look like it's other clutter on top of the bar. As for the standard rule of putting it at the end of the standard length of the note - I'll have to ignore it; it's not worth how out of place it looks.
Is there any way to use the Emmentaler version while otherwise using Bravura style? (I need Bravura style due to specific things like the double-barred Breve note). Even if not, please don't change the Emmentaler version! It would be sad to lose this kind of breath mark.
In reply to Hi there, So yes, I can… by Gidoza
Manually (via Inspector) move the breath marks 0.5 sp down
In reply to Manually (via Inspector)… by Jojo-Schmitz
Is there a way to place the breath mark directly after a note instead of at the end of the measure? When I try to move it, it lengthens the measure.
In reply to Is there a way to place the… by debharpist9
Change the Element's X-offset in Inspector.
Hmm, doesn't seem to work well with half notes, but does seem to work with quarter notes, strange
In reply to Change the Element's X… by Jojo-Schmitz
? Works equally well with both for me, but maybe something else is going on in the measure you tried it with, like content in another voice? EDIT: never mind, I see what you mean, it changes on the the next layout, because autoplace is wanting to reserve the normal amount of space anyhow.
The standard place for breath marks is right before the next note or barline, so it's clear you don't take the breath immediately after playing or singing the previous note, but rather hold it as long as you can before sneaking the breath. I wouldn't be in a hurry to override this standard as it's likely to confuse people reading the score.
On the other hand, if you are using the marking to mean something different, then a different position could well make sense. In that case, I would recommend adding it from the Symbols palette rather than the breaths palette, so it doesn't get treated in the special ways that actual breath marks are designed to be treated.
In reply to ? Works equally well with… by Marc Sabatella
Hi,
Thank you for your suggestions and quick reply. I'm a harpist and when we play with just one finger we put the breath mark right after the fingering. Going to Inspector and unchecking automatic placement worked. But I didn't think to use a symbol- great idea.
Thank you for this wonderful program and being so quick to reply to questions. I really appreciate your dedication to Musescore and all of us using it. :)
In reply to Hi, Thank you for your… by debharpist9
You're welcome, and thanks for explaining the use case! I guess from your "name" that it had to do with some sort of harp notation and wasn't really related to breaths, but this was a new one for me.
In my tests, unchecking automatic placement isn't really good enough - there is still extra space allocated. You can position a little more freely, but MuseScore still "thinks" it is a real breath mark.
In reply to You're welcome, and thanks… by Marc Sabatella
You're right, it's really not a breath mark but a comma on the harp, an indication to come off the string after playing a note, as opposed to placing it to the next one.
In reply to You wrote: The previous one… by Jm6stringer
FWIW I'm not sure if there exists a general rule about the correct position, see also this discussion some years ago: #268123: Wrong vertical position of breath mark.