Musescore 3.1 in edit mode moves segments rather than chord offset
In the May 28 2019 version of 3.1, when entering edit mode, the arrow keys no longer move individual notes. From what I can understand, it is now set to move "segments", which seems to change the overall stretch of the measure. Before, it was moving the "chord offset" value.
Can it be reverted to the previous behavior? If not, is there a way to create a new sequence of keyboard shortcuts for changing chord offset of an individual voice/note? The new behavior is not useful for me, while the old behavior was integral to how I used Musescore.
Thanks
Comments
In edit mode, the arrows have moved the segment only as long as I've been using the program. While not in edit mode the arrows have always repitched (up and down) or moved the cursor (left and right).
In reply to In edit mode, the arrows… by mike320
Oh, interesting - so to be clear, my experience up until the most recent version, in edit mode the arrow keys would move only the selected note, so that I could move individual notes around in a chord to improve readability, but as of 3.1 the arrow keys move the whole chord. You're saying that in your installation it has never been the case that the arrow keys moved individual notes within a chord during edit mode?
That's helpful because it implies that there may be a setting somewhere that perhaps was reset by the 3.1 installation.
I have reinstalled 3.05, and edit mode is once again moving only individual notes.
For example, let's say that I invoke edit mode and then press the right arrow key 3 times.
![edit mode 305 behavior.JPG]( "edit mode 305 behavior.JPG")
Here is the behavior I would like to have:
And here is the way things were after I installed 3.1:
![edit mode 310 behavior.JPG]( "edit mode 310 behavior.JPG")
In reply to Oh, interesting - so to be… by user335416763
In the Release Notes for 3.1, one of the items is "Move the whole segment on dragging a note in edit mode".
I'm thinking this must be the change I'm noticing.
In reply to In the Release Notes for 3.1… by user335416763
That's different than 2.x. In version 2 only the head would move and leave the stem behind. Honestly, I never saw a use for this. It's not something I use, so I really hadn't noticed the difference in 3.0 or 3.1.
From my perspective, the purpose of edit mode is to allow shifting of individual notes around within a chord. This is still (in 3.1) the way that edit mode works on other elements, such as dots.
I understand though that with software there are many applications and I assume that the behavior of edit mode was changed to better suit some other need.
Could the effect of the arrow keys during edit mode be made accessible in the Preferences?
In reply to From my perspective, the… by user335416763
It's more efficient and precise to use the Inspector anyhow, I'd recommend just doing that when you have the need to do this sort of offsetting.
In reply to It's more efficient and… by Marc Sabatella
I think moving the chord makes more sense than adjusting the leading space in the segment. The reason users are wanting to move chords is that voices sometimes overlap and moving only the chord in a specific voice is the solution. I have occasionally adjusted the leading space, but I've adjusted the chord location far more often.
In reply to It's more efficient and… by Marc Sabatella
Could you be more specific about how it's more efficient or precise? In prior versions, I could hit alt-shift-E to enter edit mode, move the note by any arbitrarily small amount, then escape and move to the next note all without taking my hands off the keyboard. Using the inspector would require switching between the keyboard and mouse, and once the cursor is moved to the inspector it moves by 0.5 spaces. It seems both less efficient and less precise, but perhaps I'm missing something.
In the scores I have been working on, such as the Bach solo violin works, different voices are indicated in practically every chord by means of careful shifting of each note. I can't think of any reason why I would use the new edit mode behavior, which seems kind of redundant, but as I said I'm sure there are other people who had a need for it to be this way.
Does anyone know why the behavior was changed, and whether there is a workaround that would allow me to keep using edit mode? Or if I'm missing something about the inspector which would let me do what I need to do better, please describe the technique. Thanks
In reply to Could you be more specific… by user335416763
It's true if you are doing it one note at a time and normally don't use the mouse at all, it could be a little less efficient, but still, the Inspector is quite efficient especially in the long run when moving multiple elements at once. Under normal circumstances one wouldn't be needing so many of these adjustments, but maybe there is something unique about the music you are transcribing in which the offsets are needed more - feel free to post larger excerpts so we can understand better.
Anyhow, as for why it was changed, it was by user request and the improve the experience for people accustomed to being to do similar things in other programs. Often when people move a note, it's for spacing reasons - in which case you want other notes to move as well - not to produce the sort of micro-offsets between voices you are creating.
Personally, I don't do either sort of adjustment often enough for it to make a difference, but I could imagine using a different keyboard modifier (eg, Shift+Right/Left for leading space, plain left/left for chord).
In reply to It's true if you are doing… by Marc Sabatella
Sure, for example here's the first two lines of one of Bach's most famous violin works, the Dm Chaconne from BWV 1004.
First, here's the Neue Bach-Ausgabe edition, which has a fairly typical presentation for this music:
![violin voicing example bwv 1004 ciaccona.JPG]( "violin voicing example bwv 1004 ciaccona.JPG")
The Schott edition is similar, as is the freely available Werner Icking edition.
And here's a version I've produced in Musescore (transposed to Bm as I'm currently experimenting with playing them on the guitar in different keys):
![violin voicing example bwv 1004 ciaccona transposed Bm.JPG]( "violin voicing example bwv 1004 ciaccona transposed Bm.JPG")
There are dozens upon dozens of such chords in just this one piece of music, each of which needs individual attention to bring out the voicing. Each of the 30 or 40 movements of the Bach Violin Sonatas and Partitas has such a need. I've just finished making scores of each of them, which has been a great way to study the music.
This kind of thing comes up fairly often in other music as well, though there is perhaps not much music which packs so much polyphony into such a small space as Bach does here.
In reply to Sure, for example here's the… by user335416763
Thanks for the example! I can see why you'd need such offsets more often for this piece than most. Whether in the grand scheme of things it's really more common than just wanting to tweak spacing, I cannot really say, just know that's the tradeoff.
One thing you might consider - type right-clicking a note in voice 3, Select / More Same voice, then use the Inspector to offset them all at once. I assume this will affect notes you don't need to adjust, but then you can go back to those and just Ctrl+R. That's the sort of thing I have in mind when I say the Inspector tends to be more efficient in the long run.
In reply to Thanks for the example! I… by Marc Sabatella
Oh thanks, that's a good tip. There's a lot of ambiguity between the voices in the Bach solo string works so that it probably won't be a panacea, but it'll certainly be something I use whether or not they reinstate the old edit mode behavior.
Do you know how I can make a request directly to the developers to leave the option available to have the old behavior?
In reply to Oh thanks, that's a good tip… by user335416763
You just did :-), but to make the suggestion more formally, see Support / Issue tracker above, create a new issue, mark it a Suggestion, include a link here, and provide a summary of your request and reasoning.
I'm still inclined to make it a separate command/gesture rather than an option you have to manually toggle back and forth every time you want different behavior.
In reply to You just did :-), but to… by Marc Sabatella
OK thank you! I agree regarding making it a separate command within edit mode. In general it's better to have everything available at once on the keyboard, and once within edit mode there are a lot of keystrokes available to deepen its capability.
In reply to Thanks for the example! I… by Marc Sabatella
Thanks for the input on using the inspector. I had some Brahms that I was transcribing and needed two voices. One voice for quarter and eight notes, in pattern 1/4,1/8,1/4,1/8. The other voice was beamed 1/8 and 1/16 ths some intermediate to the notes in the other voice. Actually the measure started with notes simultaneously from each voice but there was an offset between the stems in each voice so you could distinguish stems up and down. However the voice with beamed notes started to the left of the other voice quarter notes and thus the beam cut across. The printed score had all the beamed notes interior to those from the other voice and to make it work, I had to use the inspector to change the chord horizontal offset to move the beamed notes so they were bracketed by the notes in the other voice. Also tweaked the offset on the other voice cords so there was not too much white space between the stems of notes in different voices on a common beat. The attached image is the default Musescore placement except the beam was moved down manually. The modification of the offset essentially interchanges the placement of the two left most stems/cords.
In reply to It's more efficient and… by Marc Sabatella
Yes, but here the default step of 0.5 sp is too big. Often 0.3 or 0.4 is better. That's why I liked the behaviour in MSc2 more. This fine tuning takes a few extra steps in 3.1
In reply to Yes, but here the default… by MichLeon
"Yes, but here the default step of 0.5 sp is too big. Often 0.3 or 0.4 is better."
+1 support for that point
In reply to Yes, but here the default… by MichLeon
You don't need to use the up down arrows to change. If 0.5 per increment is not what you want, just type the spacing manually so you can get 2.25 between 2.0 and 2.5 which is what happens with the arrow.
I think where we left this was that the user could be given the option to have edit mode affect either the segment or the chord offset of a given note. I don't think that the new update (3.2.0.7410 from June 25) has any changes along these lines, but I just wanted to make sure that I didn't miss it in the release notes. I'm not encountering a lot of problems with 3.0.5.5992 so I'm happy to keep working with it, but I just wanted to make sure to keep this idea present somehow so that I can update at some point in the future. Thanks for your work.