Dynamics
My guess is that forte for a violin section is going to be louder than forte for a solo Flute and I am also guessing that forte for a timpani won't be three same as forte for a bassoon. My question is: What should I set the volumes on the mixer to so that the playback plays every part the same as an orchestra would?
Comments
That totally depends on the sound font you use. As a rule, all instruments will blend together with no instrument standing out as I'm sure you are aware. Since the samples were taken in isolation on any sound font, you will need to play with the mixer until it sounds right. If you can't hear a sound, turn it up. If a sound stands out, turn it down. I know this is the obvious answer, but even if I had tested this, there is not a number I can give you that you can enter into the mixer.
Another consideration is the nature of each instrument's sound. I can generally hear a violin better than a flute, with the exception of a few note combinations. Timpani almost never stand out to me unless they are at a much higher dynamic than the rest of the instruments.
In reply to That totally depends on the… by mike320
Thanks for telling me that my timpani shouldn't be be turned up all the way but the rest of what you said wasn't helpful. What I meant was that I want to set my mixer according to the volume differences in the instruments so that I can use the dynamics balance the sound.
In reply to Thanks for telling me that… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
If no one has any good advice on this I can take a guess myself. But I'd like to save that for last resort.
In reply to Thanks for telling me that… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
I think I understand. The default is mf=80 with mixer default volumes at about 2/3rds. (But the choice of fonts will challenge in so far as some are louder (Toh) and some quieter (SSO) in general.) So. without adding any dynamics, roll up and down on the instrument mix until you get what you think is the correct blend for "moderately loud" for each instrument. This can only be relative to each other. Now, since you haven't touched the dynamics, this will be mf=80 and you are set to go.
In reply to I think I understand. The… by Anonymous
Keep in mind that using dynamic markings is like automated mixing. it is not really "playing dynamically."
You can achieve the same level output by using dynamic markings and offsets in Ms. to match a piano playing softly to a piano played hard or vice versa. To get real dynamic playing. you need multiple samples of hard and soft playing, the technique and attack, instrument changes and such. Both the mixer and dynamic markings are only of the "turn it up" and "turn it down" variety. Yet, in many cases this works fine.
In reply to Keep in mind that using… by Anonymous
Still not answering my question, but telling me how to answer it myself is fine. I think I will experament to find the right mixer volumes on a separate score though.
In reply to Still not answering my… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
You choosing the level is the answer. For instance. take five different clarinet fonts and add only one at a given time to an existing forte passage. Which mixer setting is the "correct" one? Any of them may be depending on font sample volume, timbre, pitch and range of passage.
However, I think you want to know what would be the ideal offsets of instruments from another instrument chosen as the standard, right? In other words, suppose a section of trumpets set at mf=80. What negative value would a section of violins have if asked to play mf? Your assumption is that given similarly balanced samples. a mf passage played by violins is not as loud as a trumpet section. Set the offset between -8 and -4 and call it mf. I hope this helps!
(An experiment occurred to me where you could study the db levels for different instrument sections across multiple type dynamic passages and come up with average offset ratios)
It's subjective, that's why there is no one answer anyone can give you. Find three trumpet players, ask them to play forte, and you'll get three different results. Put three different conductors in front of an orchestra and ask them to get what they find to be a balanced forte across the sections and again you'll get three different results. Ask a single trumpet player to play forte in an orchestra versus a brass quintet versus a jazz big band and you'll get three different answers again.
Basically, leaving the mixer alone should produce reasonable results in many contexts. If you subjectively feel your particular score needs a tweak, go for it.
In reply to It's subjective, that's why… by Marc Sabatella
I'm guessing you just want me to guess the mixer levels according to the natural relative dynamic variances in each section and try to have the real orchestra play with dynamics the same as the synthesized audio.
In reply to I'm guessing you just want… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
I don't want you to "guess" anything. Just to accept that this is subjective and to trust your own judgement. Start with the Mixer at defaults. If things aren't balancing the way you personally would like for some particular composition, then make whatever adjustments you find pleading. For instance, if you personally wish the horns were louder, turn them up. Each soundfont is different, so expect to have to perform different adjustments for different soundfonts.
Should you be fortunate enough to find yourself conducting a real orchestra, then youbuse your conducting skills to do the same thing. With one orchestra you might find you need to tell the flutes to back off; with another you might find you need to tell the violas to play louder.
Bottom line: this is music, not chemistry. There is no scientific formula to tell you what you will like. You need to listen and respond based on your own subjective preferences.
In reply to I don't want you to "guess"… by Marc Sabatella
I will be changing the mixer so that it's like reality, as in trumpets are louder than violins so trumpet is turned up louder, because that way if I want the trumpets to play the same loudness as the violins it will be a lower dynamic as the same hours with an actual orchestra.
In reply to I will be changing the mixer… by ♪𝔔𝔲𝔞𝔳𝔢𝔯 ℭ𝔯𝔞𝔣𝔱𝔢𝔯♪
Again, it's subjective and depends on situation. The relative volume of trumpets to violins depends on many factors. Most obviously, size of orchestra. A small chamber orchestra might have two trumpets and 10 violins. A large one might have two trumpets but 40 violins. This changes the balance dramatically. But also, amateur trumpet players will generally be louder than more professional ones. And savvy trumpet players may interpret a forte louder in a Wagner piece than they do in Mozart. All of these factors come into play, so it's simply impossible to say one given group of Mixer settings is most like an actual orchestra. Each situation is different.
So.once more, trust your ears, do what makes sense to you personally for your particular score using your particular soundfont, and don't worry about finding the "right" answer because there is no one right answer.
In reply to Again, it's subjective and… by Marc Sabatella
So ya, I just take a guess and then tell the orchestra if they are playing it wrong.
Finally I figured it out. I read principles for the orchestra by Nicolai Rimsky-Korsakov and it was very helpful. It didn't tell me what to set my mixer to (duh), but now I know, for example, to achieve the same dynamic, the horns must be marked on dynamic higher than the other brass. From what I learned I can more accurately set my mixer.
I noticed violin was louder than flute when playing notes on A and E strings (high notes) but wasn't quite as loud when playing notes on D string (low notes)..so I found that a mp dynamic on violin was the equivalent to mf on violin...but it differs for each song... here's a link a website that helped me distinguish different orchestra instruments in a song.
http://mattiaswestlund.net/?page_id=254