Is it correct a slur or tie going across a time signature?
When tying two notes in consecutive bars, if there is a time signature change, in the default render the tie often goes across the time signature. Is this considered correct? It is possible to manually reshape the tie so that it goes above or below the numbers, but it may look worse. The same holds for some in-staff slurs. Any opinions?
Federico Miyara
Comments
Ideally the tie or slur will have a break in it so it doesn't actually go straight through the time signature, but MuseScore does not currently support this. I don't know what the plan for this is in version 3.
In reply to Ideally the tie or slur will… by mike320
Are there available examples of this from publishers? Or is it a proposal?
I've been skimming some Bartok`s pieces (from Mikrokosmos) and I find that if possible, the tie is reshaped, but if the result is too unesthetical, it is left across the time signature. I did not find broken ties.
In reply to Are there available examples… by fmiyara
I have see ties and slurs being broken when going through a time signature change, but this is not the most common notation. My initial response was not well thought out.
This is of course more common as you have stated. The only time I remember the ties going through a time signature becoming an issue is when the measures are crowded together and moving or reshaping the ties as in the example would lead to such a distortion it would be difficult to recognize the tie. As an explanation, other instruments in this score have 16th notes which causes the shown notes to be farther apart and allows for the ties to be adjusted. If one of the instruments with 16th notes had an A, B or C in the middle of the treble clef tied to another, it would not be easy to draw a tie between two notes without distorting or making it look more like a slur.
In reply to I have see ties and slurs… by mike320
My case is indeed one in which the bars are not crowded but have so few notes tht they are too short.
![example1.jpg]( "example1.jpg")
![example2.jpg]( "example2.jpg")
This is how it looks after reshaping the ties:
It is only barely tolerable
In reply to My case is indeed one in… by fmiyara
That is definitely a case where broken ties would be preferred.
In reply to That is definitely a case… by mike320
This is how it looks breaking the ties (I´ve manually edited the image using GIMP):
![example1a.jpg]( "example1a.jpg")
I don't like it too much either, but it could be an option. However, I think it could be very difficult to devise an algorithm capable of doing this automatically in all cases. In multivoice passges the tie could conflict with other elements such as noteheads or flags. Maybe a special tool could be activated on the slur or tie element allowing one or more resizeable breaks
In reply to This is how it looks… by fmiyara
Another possibility:
![twts.png]( "twts.png")
A slight increase in the vertical offset (-0.75) and a slight manual adjustment in the upper position of the tie. (see twts2.png)
In reply to a slight increase in… by Ziya Mete Demircan
This would be a good solution for slurs, but ties require the ends of the arc to be very close to the noteheads.
In reply to a slight increase in… by Ziya Mete Demircan
My own personal approach to ties/slurs through time signatures- try to line up the point of intersection such that it cuts across in the least intrusive fashion. Attached are two examples of different sheet music of the same piece, plus my own transcription.
My version:
A different arrangement of the same piece:
The third is just the arrangement that I based mine off of.
In reply to My own personal approach to… by LuuBluum
Thank you all for the different solutions. Having also examined some published scores I arrive at the following conclusions: Some publishers try to avoid the intersection, either by reshaping the tie or displacing it vertically (as Ziya proposed; for reference, see Stravinsky's "The Rite of Spring", Dover edition, rehearsal mark 12, bar 8, clarinet), even if in the latter case there is a non-conformance to the normative precept. Others accept the intersection if better than excesive reshaping (e.g., the Bartok piece I've mentioned earlier). Others even use Mike's solution of breaking the arc ("The Rite of Spring", cited edition, Rehearsal mark 28, basoon) . Yes, Mike, after some digging I've found an example!
Hence there is no unique solution, publishers tend to use a variety of approaches maximizing aesthetics and clarity.