Rebeam music
In Finale, I can break beam follow lyrics (syllabic lyric) for my score. Musescore is not.
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In Finale, I can break beam follow lyrics (syllabic lyric) for my score. Musescore is not.
Do you still have an unanswered question? Please log in first to post your question.
Comments
That does seem like it could be useful. In MuseScore, you can easily set everythng to no beam (right click one note, Select / All Similar Elements, double click the "No beam" icon in Beam Properties). But there is no automatic way to keep that from happening on melisma syllables, so you'd have to do that manually.
In reply to That does seem like it could by Marc Sabatella
I am also in favor of having this feature. My work flow at present is to complete vocal notes and lyrics entry, then "select all" the vocal staff notes, and use beam properties to remove all beams. Then, on a case by case basis, put beams back in for all melismas. Its a bit cumbersome, but I really dont like using the instrument beaming standard for vocals; it just seems to make too much clutter. Does the Gould book (or other references) speak on this subject?
In reply to I am also in favor of having by marty strasinger
Yes, she says the old method os not beaming eighths for vocal music is obsolete and to be avoided because it makes the rhyhtms harder to read, and I agree. Beaming is an important part of how we perceive rhyhtms - the start of a beam is generally a strong beat, etc - and I definitely miss it when I don't see that cue.
In reply to Yes, she says the old method by Marc Sabatella
Thanks, but I have to respectfully disagree with her. Maybe its just me, but with most of my work in languages that I can speak phonetically but am not fluent in, the notes and rhythms are easily memorized while the lyrics require more visual attention and the beams just get in the way. But I can definitely see that others would have different priorities.
In reply to Thanks, but I have to by marty strasinger
I'm curious - if you are focusing on the lyrics, how do the beams affect anything one way or the other? I'd think you would even notice them, or the flags, or indeed even the pitches.
In reply to I'm curious - if you are by Marc Sabatella
Marc, I disagree with Gould on a fair number of things, but on this one I do agree with her (and you). However, the fact is that there is a long-standing (and hence strong) tradition of using flags instead of beams in vocal music, and changing that attitude will take time and lots of patience.
The good news is that our editorial policy of using beams in the normal manner for editions of vocal music has not, so far, provoked any criticism or objections from choral directors. It would be interesting to do a survey of editions published by the 'majors' (such as Barenreiter, Peters, et alie) in the last 15 years or so to see what they have been doing. Trends in publishing start with small firms, but once they are adopted by the major players, they gain speed and acceptance more rapidly.
In reply to Marc, I disagree with Gould by Recorder485
Attached are two scores in defense of my position, but I have to admit I'm not on strong ground here. However, neither do I find the arguments for the opposite position compelling, and I spent some internet time reviewing the subject
If you go to measure 237+ of Largo al factotum or measure 71+ of Madamina and re-beam the vocal line according to contemporary standards, to my eye the additional black on the screen is distracting (but not horrible, either). However, the "sameness" of everything is what, I think, really throws me. Hopefully I won't get in trouble for quoting from a Lilypond essay on engraving:
"In the computer-generated output, even the individual note heads are aligned in vertical columns, making the contour of the melody disappear into a rigid grid of musical markings.
There are other differences as well: in the hand-engraved edition the vertical lines are all stronger, the slurs lie closer to the note heads, and there is more variety in the slopes of the beams. Although such details may seem like nitpicking, the result is a score that is easier to read. In the computer-generated output, each line is nearly identical and if the musician looks away for a moment she will be lost on the page."
To paraphrase (for my own purposes)- sometimes making everything look too similar is not good.
In researching, I came across well-reasoned (but not particularly strong) arguments for both points of view, which leads me to think maybe there is not a one-size-fits-all answer. And, as I already mentioned, maybe I'm coming from a special case re: the signing of non-native languages.
Addressing one possible argument against me, I don't think I'm coming from a "social inertia" perspective (i.e., I've always done it that way, so that's the way I intend to keep doing it). Quite the opposite- it was only after some time spent using MuseScore that I realized I was having more difficulty than before in following some music, and eventually realized it was because the vocals were beamed the same as the instrumentals.
Thanks for taking the time & effort to consider this.
In reply to I'm curious - if you are by Marc Sabatella
Interesting discussion!
It still seems to me that other than the fact that some people are *accustomed* to seeing flags rather than beams, there really is no *inherent* advantage in not beaming. That is, I suspect if you had two groups of people who don't already know how to read music and you train them both ways, you'd see no difference in their ability to read lyrics.
Whereas there really is a very real and objectively measurable advantage to beaming when it comes to reading rhythms. Beams make it instantly clear which notes are on strong beats and which notes are not. If you see four beamed eighths somewhere in the middle of a measure, you *know* the second one and fourth ones are on offbeats, but if you see four *unbeamed* eighths, you have absolutely no idea which are on the beat and which are not except by having counted every note value up to that point. Beams really are a proven aid to sight-reading rhythms.
Anyhow, it's all a bit beside the point - clearly, MuseScore supports both styles, and I do support the idea of further enhancing this to provide a way to auto-beam according to lyrics to make the older style easier to create. I have no interest in forcing anyone to beam their eighths for their own use if they like them better unbeamed. but I will suggest that if you are producing music for the use others, you consider whether your audience will share your particular biases or whether they would be better served with music that adheres to the modern standard they will be accustomed to in other modern editions of music.
In reply to Interesting discussion! It by Marc Sabatella
Yes, interesting discussion, and a bit more civil than some others on the forums.
I think your final point is well taken, and I will probably use contemporary beaming practise for church choir music but stick with old-school for opera. Different talent/training levels and different venues for both performance and practice.
One thing I didn't come across when researching, was why the older scores beamed differently in the first place. Any ideas? I wonder what the reasoning was?
In reply to Thanks, but I have to by marty strasinger
Yes, thank everyone!
You can set beam properties in two ways:
1. Individually, for specific groups of notes. This is done by typing F9 to bring up the Palette, and then clicking Beam Properties in the list. A group of options will open, and you can either select a note and double click on the option you want to apply to that note, or mouse-drag the appropriate option to the note you want affected.
2. Globally, you can create custom beaming parameters for the entire score from the Time Signature Properties dialogue. (I know, that is somewhat counter-intuitive, but....) Right click on the time signature and select Time Signature Properties. You will see a palette containing a section entitled 'Note Groups' under which you will find eighth, sixteenth, and thirty-second note groups, plus the usual beaming options below those. Modify the beaming of the note groups using the options you want, then click OK.
If you wish to set music to lyric syllabic text as all flagged (unbeamed) notes, drag the 'start beam' icon to the note FOLLOWING the one you want flagged.
Regarding Gould, I believe it's a good reference for default behavior and this is it (but it's already a lot...).
This feature (Rebeam according to lyrics) is a good candidate for a plugin or for a tool in Edit > Tool.