Cut-time symbol in jazz font
I made a lead sheet in cut time, and for some reason the time signature has a parenthesis fixed to its right side. I've never seen this on a sheet before, and can't imagine a reason for it.
I'm not sure if it's a default or the result of some unintentional display setting on my part, but either way how do I get rid of it?
Comments
Attach the score, or at least the part that has the time signature.
In reply to Attach the score, or at… by mike320
I mean, sure, if that's useful. I'll create a blank, new score in cut time & upload that.
In reply to Attach the score, or at… by mike320
Cut time sample score.mscz
Oh, I should mention that I searched the forum, and don't see anything, but I might not be using the right keyword?
With the Muse Jazz font I see the same stray "swash" also with the C for common time. (Thought it might be part of the bass clef symbol, but not so.)
scorster
It's very common in jazz scores. It's part of the cut-c symbol, so you can't get rid of it without using another font.
In reply to It's very common in jazz… by ecstrema
Interesting. I can't speak for big band scores, but I've never seen it on a lead sheet.
In reply to Interesting. I can't speak… by abnyc
Here's an example.
![paren_44.jpg]( "paren_44.jpg")
In reply to Here's an example. [inline… by ecstrema
Thanks, you're quite right.
Seems to me like it would be constructive to have this be user-selected between glyphs with or without the parenthesis, since even if it's used sometimes, it's not standard practice. Maybe that's tricky to implement with the font file structure that MuseScore uses, I couldn't say.
In 3.6 you'd be able to use Petaluma instead, another 'jazzy' font:
![Cut_time_sample_score.png]( "Cut_time_sample_score.png")
In reply to In 3.6 you'd be able to use… by Jojo-Schmitz
Good to know, thanks. I'll probably just open musejazz in fontforge or whatnot & change the glyph for my local use.
In reply to In 3.6 you'd be able to use… by Jojo-Schmitz
Thanks, Jojo. It's good to hear that the devs are expanding the typesetting options in MuseScore. I honestly wouldn't ever want to use that symbol above for cut time, but that's just personal taste.
Okay, so it seems like the fonts are directly compiled into the program.
I have no doubt there's a solid reason for that, but is there really no way to modify the font files MuseScore uses? The parenthesis/swash in front of the cut & common symbols is nonstandard, and pretty obtrusive. It's not that big a deal for casual use, but I wouldn't really want to hand out lead sheets to a combo with that on them, it just looks unprofessional.
In reply to Thanks, Jojo. It's good to… by abnyc
If you don't need a jazz font, why not use emmentaler of Bravura?
In reply to Thanks, Jojo. It's good to… by abnyc
For the record, it's not just cut time, it's also common time, and in the types of charts this font was designed to emulate, it's used for all time signatures.
In reply to For the record, it's not… by Marc Sabatella
@Marc Indeed, but it could be as an option instead of being fixed in the font.
Smufl provides a time signature parenthesis glyph: https://musescore.org/en/comment/reply/node/313219/comment_forum/1042014
So that could be used instead with a style option.
Also, this super cool PR already gives the option to add a trailing parenthesis.
EDIT: Was the wrong link to smufl
In reply to @Marc Indeed, but it could… by ecstrema
Here's how it looks with this and petaluma and MuseJazz:
Petaluma:
MuseJazz
Look at that text (appearance) field in the inspector:
![C.png]( "C.png")
and
![C_paren.png]( "C_paren.png")
so why keep it in the font now that it can be done easily and with more versatility (is that a word?)
In reply to Here's how it looks with… by ecstrema
This certainly emphasizes how odd a choice it is to hard-code, if it's already an option to add.
& big yes to versatility, you're in the clear!
In reply to For the record, it's not… by Marc Sabatella
wasn't there even parentheses after Key sig changes sometimes?
In reply to For the record, it's not… by Marc Sabatella
Yes, thanks Marc, I noticed that. If anything, the disconnect between that style's usage on all time signatures and MS3's usage only on the cut- and common-time symbols is further evidence that it doesn't belong in MS, certainly not as a fixed default.
What it's emulating is a style that (somewhat incomprehensibly, to me) uses the parenthesis to section off the time/key/clef from the first measure. Always. Now, I'm all for MuseScore allowing users to implement that style if they so desire, but there's little justification for imposing it, especially inconsistently.
Ultimately, the whole "jazz font" idea is just that, a font. It doesn't connote any variation to engraving rules beyond the affect of a "handwritten" look and, more crucially, larger/bolder/more readable chord symbols. The fact that there's a subset of jazz scores which adopted this convention is probably more an artifact of an earlier era of jazz scores/sheets where there was no real standard, in engraving or especially in chord symbols (+ means augmented but also sharp, - means minor but also flat, Δ means major 7 but also major, and M7 or sometimes M also means major 7, etc...). It kind of reminds me of the way the beatniks decided on the variant spelling "yr"/"yrs" for the second person possessive. Okay, you do you, but I'd be annoyed if they reprinted all the dictionaries.
In reply to Thanks, Jojo. It's good to… by abnyc
The fonts are compiled into the program to remain compatibility with Musescore.com, the sharing platform. If restricting-license-ed fonts were allowed on the desktop, these still could not be used on .com, causing the score to look different on desktop and on the web.
That's why there's lately been some efforts from the dev team to provide new fonts. Until the coming 3.6, there are 4 fonts, out of which only one with a jazz look: MuseJazz. MuseJazz is maintained by the Musescore project, like Emmentaler and Gonville. Bravura is maintained by steinberg.
For 3.6, the design team created a completely new font, Leyland, designed to look like a professionnal engraving font.
Meanwhile, Jojo merged Petaluma, which is also designed by Steinberg, to provide another (with MuseJazz) handwritten font.
Back to the parenthesis: Since Musejazz is maintained by the Musescore project, you could, if you wanted, modify it and propose the changes. If you want, I could send you a Musescore version without the parenthesis. It would be quite quick to build, but I doubt it gets into the master development branch until someone implements the option you describe: the ability to toggle it on or off.
In reply to The fonts are compiled into… by ecstrema
That makes sense, I figured it might have something to do with intellectual property issues.
I think it's fantastic that the devs are diversifying the typesetting options. Major kudos, and I hope I haven't come across as flippant or unappreciative.
There's no need to bother building me a tweaked version of the program, though it's very kind of you to offer. It would end up getting reverted next release, anyway. Where/how are changes proposed? I could certainly modify a ttf/otf file & propose inclusion of the change, but I don't have the skills to write/edit any code.
In reply to That makes sense, I figured… by abnyc
I'll see what I can do. It's a fairly easy fix, so even if I don't have a dev machine right now, it might just work out.
In reply to I'll see what I can do. It's… by ecstrema
I found the relevant code and opened a PR (https://github.com/musescore/MuseScore/pull/6917). If you have time to edit the font files, feel free. You can get them here (the relevant one is MuseJazz, not MuseJazzText) and post them here on the forum. I'll include them in my PR.
So all you have to do is to remove the parens from the Common and Cut time signatures (and maybe the other weird round signs which are apparently time signatures too) and send the font.
Else, I'll try to do it whenever I can reach a machine where I can use fontforge.
In reply to I found the relevant code… by ecstrema
Done & PM sent.
In reply to The fonts are compiled into… by ecstrema
I of course appreciate the inclusion of Leland and Petaluma and the intention to develop more fonts, but it is a bit of a turn off to think that MuseScore is, like, not going to support 3rd party SMuFL fonts anytime soon by design. I understand the functionality and license problems with MuseScore.com, but the price is limiting a bit the artistic needs of composers and engravers who are looking for a more personal touch in their works, which is beyond just having options of good engraving. There should be an alternative, even if it implies musescore.com not allowing scores engraved with external fonts. In my opinion (and my experiences with people like that) many contemporary composers pursue to engrave scores that don't look always look like Finale or Sibelius, or Lilypond.
IMO MuseScore is in a very good place in that sense, as it becomes more and more customizable. Actually it might be the best around, but with external font support it would be the bestest :D
This article illustrates a bit who are these people (also, a font creator)
https://www.scoringnotes.com/people/interview-new-music-specialist-jef-…